[doggiebox] Re: Doggiebox feedback

Bret Van Horn bret at workshed.com
Mon Feb 10 15:42:36 EST 2003

This is exactly the sort of interface I was hoping to see in a future


----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Bailey" <ebailey at cs.stanford.edu>
To: "Doggiebox" <doggiebox at lists.zygoat.ca>
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [doggiebox] Re: Doggiebox feedback

These are all very cool ideas that I would love to see implemented.

Additionally, I think there is a great opportunity for enhancing the
sequencing abilities of Doggiebox.  The interface focus could change,
making the process of creating drum parts much easier.

Basically, you'd base the entire editing interface on a song section
(to use the terminology from the Doggiebox section marker list).  Edits
are made one section at a time, and all sections still appear in the
section list.

The interface twist is that, instead of piecing together a song in the
editor window, you do it in a  "song-map" window that's basically a
table of the drum sections in the order you want them to be played back
and, for each section, how many bars should be played, what the
starting bar is, etc.

A song could then be put together by dragging sections from the section
list into the song-map.  A song could quickly change by reordering the
song-map list, changing any song-map section's playback parameters, or
adding/deleting sections from the song-map.

An example song might be comprised of the following sections, all 4
bars each: Intro, Verse, Chorus, Chorus2, and Interlude.  Quickly
arranging those sections into a song could result in something that
looks like:
Intro, Verse, Chorus, Verse, Chorus, Chorus2, Interlude, Chorus,

Maybe you want the last Chorus2 to repeat - just double the number of
bars it plays for.

Maybe something's missing in the change from Chorus to Chorus2 - create
a new section called ChorusTransition that's 1 bar long, put it in
between the Chorus/Chorus2 sections, and have the related Chorus play
only 3 instead of 4 bars.

Maybe the first bar of the Chorus after the Interlude needs more
symbols - create a new section called InterludeTransition, 1 bar long,
place it after the Interlude, have that post-Interlude Chorus start on
bar 2 and now play only 2 bars (since we also use ChorusTransition).

At least for me, putting together and editing a song in this fashion
would be a lot simpler than having a long editing window full of
similar looking bars encompassing the entire song.  Of course, there's
no reason why the two forms of editing can't coexist simultaneously,
having a switch for the editor to go between section and full song mode.

Lets go back to that InterludeTransition.  Say we just directly edit
that first bar of Chorus after the Interlude.  The software could
automatically set up a new section called Fill1, insert Fill1 between
the Interlude and Chorus in the song-map, and change that Chorus'
starting bar to 2.  Later, you could rename Fill1 to

I'm interested in hearing other users' feedback on this.  I was going
to write a program based around this concept in the middle of last year
but got sidetracked (aka married) and saw the first release of
Doggiebox and wanted to see how it would develop.

(Ben - I had this interface pretty fully spec'd out at one point.  If
you're interested in specifics, I'd be happy to go over them with you.
Additionally, I'd be happy to help in coding some of this functionality
if you wanted to focus on some of the other great features requested in
this thread.)

Thanks all,

On Monday, February 10, 2003, at 02:26  PM, Bret Van Horn wrote:

> I think these are all great ideas. I am especially fond of the
> sequencing
> portion, as I've been wishing for that one for quite awhile now. :-)
> I'd also like to see an option to export all of the drum tracks to
> separate
> audio files, so the drums can be mixed and effected independently in
> pro
> tools if so desired.
> And if you're feeling really saucy, the ability to add reverb, delay,
> and
> other effects to each drum track would be nice. But I understand that
> you
> have to limit the scope at some point. When I had to use a PC, I used
> an app
> called LeafDrums, which was a lot like Doggiebox, and had the
> reverb/effects
> capability, as well as individual volume controls, which was kind of
> nice.
> Anyhow keep up the great work!
> -Bret
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ben Kennedy" <ben at zygoat.ca>
> To: "François Rayer" <francois at 4umusic.com>
> Cc: "Doggiebox" <doggiebox at lists.zygoat.ca>
> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 2:07 PM
> Subject: [doggiebox] Re: Doggiebox feedback
> On 09 2 2003 at 8:30 am -0500, François Rayer wrote:
>> So as musician, I downloaded it and play a little with it. These are
>> the feedback and ideas I got about it, I hope this might help to make
>> this thing to become ZeGreatThing ;-)
> Hey François,
> Thanks a lot for the feedback, I appreciate it, and I'm glad you are
> having fun with Doggie :)
> All of your ideas are right on point; here are my thoughts:
>> You might propose to the user to set one instrument per line (on the
>> left side of the bars) and so adding/removing a beat is just a click
>> on
>> the right place in the instruments/beats matrix. To keep the thing
>> readable it's better if it adds the symbol of the instrument (like you
>> do now).
> Yep, I tend to agree.  Originally, my goal was to simplify the whole
> grid
> by causing various drums to share spots -- for example, cymbals and hi
> hats which wouldn't typically be hit at the same time.  However, I
> realise this does create extra hassle for quickly adding/removing
> things.
> As it happens, doing what you've illustrated in the JPEG is very much
> what I've had in mind for the near future.  I am thinking of having a
> switchable mode, so that you can either use the current behaviour
> (compact five-line grid) or switch so that every instrument shows up in
> its own space... and then have the drum kit list/palette follow the
> mouse
> around so that it always appears to the left of the current row, in
> line
> with the grid currently being edited.
> Also, functions related to this:  providing option-click to erase the
> current drum, regardless of what it is; and control-click for more
> options (as you suggest).
>> 2. The ability to name a set of bars is fine, I would like to be able
>> to sequence them as the song need it, without copying it.
> Yeah, I hear you on this; that's also on the idea list.  Seems it would
> be cool if you could copy a section in the section list, and paste it
> in
> somewhere else, so that it functions like an alias to the first one.  I
> am thinking that the bars would show up in the editor like usual, but
> with an indication that they are actually an alias for a pre-existing
> section elsewhere in the song -- any changes made to one would be made
> also to the original.  Or, it could be locked so that changes could
> only
> be made to the original.
>> 3. The granularity feature is fine but should be manageable by bar to
>> keep a more compact interface.
> In principle, I understand where you are coming from on this, and I
> think
> there is room for improvement.  However, I'm wondering how to implement
> it in a way that would not cause widespread confusion. :)  I think the
> first step is that I need to indicate, on a per-bar basis somehow, what
> the current granularity is -- i.e. what duration of note that a given
> beat division represents.
>> 4. As a general remark, most of Mac users like the CTRL click (or
>> right
>> click) because it's fast. Many functions might be implemented that way
>> and so being context sensitive (when you right click on a bar you get
>> bar menu, on an instrument a menu about the instrument...)
> Exact; I foresee the power here, and I just haven't had time to flesh
> it
> out yet.  For example, I envision control-click to provide a velocity
> slider, so that you can alter the volume of a given drum/cymbal hit,
> etc.
>> That's it for today :-) I will play a little more with this demo and
>> perhaps come back to you with more feedback.
> Awesome; I love the suggestions, and look forward to your other ideas.
> By the way, I am copying this to the mailing list so people can get an
> idea what is is lying ahead; hope you don't mind!
> -ben
> --
> Ben Kennedy, chief magician
> zygoat creative technical services
> 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628
> http://www.zygoat.ca
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Zygoat Doggiebox home page: http://www.zygoat.ca/products/doggiebox/
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: doggiebox-unsubscribe at lists.zygoat.ca
> For additional commands, e-mail: doggiebox-help at lists.zygoat.ca
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Zygoat Doggiebox home page: http://www.zygoat.ca/products/doggiebox/
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: doggiebox-unsubscribe at lists.zygoat.ca
> For additional commands, e-mail: doggiebox-help at lists.zygoat.ca

Zygoat Doggiebox home page: http://www.zygoat.ca/products/doggiebox/
To unsubscribe, e-mail: doggiebox-unsubscribe at lists.zygoat.ca
For additional commands, e-mail: doggiebox-help at lists.zygoat.ca

More information about the Doggiebox mailing list