[doggiebox] Doggiebox and other instruments

Michael Carlyle mcarlyle at charter.net
Fri May 23 12:53:34 EDT 2003

I usually try to compose with Doggiebox alone, played 
through my computer speakers, with my guitar on my lap. 
I'll get the basic structure down, then spice up later, 
just like you guys are talking about. 

I don't see the point in comitting anything to disk before 
I'm ready, even though I could easily swap a new doggie 
box file into place for an old one. That's a personal 

Exported files always seem to have the same start point, 
making the swapping easy for those of use using file 
import, provided that the drum track is structured 
properly first.

Short anecdote: I had my singer/lyricist "sign off" on a 
basic track, allowing me to build from there. When it came 
time to lay the vocals down, he stops in mid-singing and 
says "that ain't right".

I had to take an entire section out of my song, cut and 
paste style. I was eventually able to pull it off rather 
seamlessly. The moral of the story is, I guess, that even 
when you think you've got the drums nailed, you just never 

On Fri, 23 May 2003 10:01:00 -0400
  "Patrick O'Donoghue" <pdiddyod at hotmail.com> wrote:
>One thing I try to do is this....I always add the 1-2-3-4 
>(I use the rim-shot or side-shot) at the beginning of the 
>Doggiebox drum patten WHEN I'M BUILDING IT in Doggiebox, 
>it then allows me to count-off the exact same way 
>whenever I swap out drum tracks on a particular song. 
>(I'm careful not to duplicate that opening bar -- i.e., 
>the 1-2-3-4 count-off -- when cutting and pasting for an 
>extended drum loop.)
>After I have a basic (i.e., repetitive) drum pattern 
>imported into Pro Tools, I'll record the guitars, vocals, 
>etc.  Then, after the basic song structure is in place, 
>I'll go back to the original Doggiebox file (which still 
>has the 1-2-3-4 count-off intro), make changes to the 
>body of the file adding fills, crashes, etc.. at points 
>where the song needs it, then import that newly revised 
>drum track into Pro Tools. (If you do it on a new track, 
>and leave the original drum track in place, you can mute 
>all other tracks and listen to see if the two drum tracks 
>are in sync. They should be.)
>Then I delete the first repetitive drum track, and also 
>delete the 1-2-3-4 count-off  prior to mixing out to the 
>Master Mix.
>>From: Carl Edlund Anderson <cea at carlaz.com>
>>To: Doggiebox <doggiebox at lists.zygoat.ca>
>>Subject: Re: [doggiebox] Doggiebox and other instruments
>>Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 10:02:31 +0100
>>At 18:31 22/05/2003, Hermiteer wrote:
>>>> I have a (now rather old) Roland VS-1680 and Doggiebox 
>>>>is my drummer
>>>> :)  For my set-up, the best technique _seems_ to be to 
>>>>assemble a basic
>>>> percussion track in Doggiebox, export it as an AIFF, 
>>>>playback the AIFF 
>>>> record it on the 1680, then record guitars, etc. on top 
>>>>of that.  The 
>>>> is that I often want to change the details of the 
>>>>percussion track as I
>>>> work on the song (add fill here, extra cymbal there), 
>>>>but it's 
>>>difficult to
>>>> synchronize the start of play to rerecord the drum track 
>>>>directly (thus 
>>>> MIDI feature requests some weeks back :)  It works out 
>>>>(at present) a
>>>> little easier to simply slap a whole new AIFF over the 
>>>> track on the 1680 to get it on the machine and roughly 
>>>>in place, and 
>>>> "nudge" the whole thing into synchronization with the 
>>>> instruments.  It's still a little tedious, but not 
>>>I do basically the same thing, except that I've found it 
>>>invaluable to add a
>>>measure of "count off" cymbal hits before the drum track 
>>>starts.  This
>>>ensures that the other tracks start at the right time and 
>>>allows you to swap
>>>out the drum track with no ill effects on the timing of 
>>>the other tracks.
>>Well, I generally add "count off" hits at the beginning 
>>anyway, just so I can tell when to start playing the 
>>other instruments when overdubbing :)  But I kind of see 
>>what you mean, except that if I were swapping out the 
>>whole drum track, I wouldn't be able to hear the count 
>>off if it were part of the rest of the drum track that 
>>was being swapped out (assuming I read what you're doing 
>>right).  In any case, the trick for me is to always get 
>>the drum track starting at Time N, where N is however 
>>many units of time measurement into recording process the 
>>music is supposed to start.
>>I suppose, though, if I just think of the the Play button 
>>itself as just another instrument, if I recorded a 
>>separate count-off on a separate track from the "real 
>>percussion tracks", I could use that as my aural cue for 
>>1-2-3-4-Go, pressing play on "Go" :)  That ought to 
>>result in a new percussion track that is _pretty_ closing 
>>in timing to the one that's being replaced (and I could 
>>always then shift the resulting new drum track a few 
>>units of time one way or another from the VS-1680's 
>>interface).  Might be able to skip the AIFF step that way 
>>....  Kind of obvious, when I think about it :)
>>But that's why I asked some while ago about adding MIDI 
>>features in Doggiebox: so that I could essentially slave 
>>it to the MIDI time clock on the VS-1680, meaning that, 
>>at the appropriate moment, the 1680 would tell Doggiebox 
>>"Go!" and go Doggiebox would, the same time, everytime.
>>Carl Edlund Anderson
>>mailto:cea at carlaz.com
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