On 09 2 2003 at 8:30 am -0500, François Rayer wrote:
So as musician, I downloaded it and play a little with it. These are the feedback and ideas I got about it, I hope this might help to make this thing to become ZeGreatThing ;-)
Hey François, Thanks a lot for the feedback, I appreciate it, and I'm glad you are having fun with Doggie :) All of your ideas are right on point; here are my thoughts:
You might propose to the user to set one instrument per line (on the left side of the bars) and so adding/removing a beat is just a click on the right place in the instruments/beats matrix. To keep the thing readable it's better if it adds the symbol of the instrument (like you do now).
Yep, I tend to agree. Originally, my goal was to simplify the whole grid by causing various drums to share spots -- for example, cymbals and hi hats which wouldn't typically be hit at the same time. However, I realise this does create extra hassle for quickly adding/removing things. As it happens, doing what you've illustrated in the JPEG is very much what I've had in mind for the near future. I am thinking of having a switchable mode, so that you can either use the current behaviour (compact five-line grid) or switch so that every instrument shows up in its own space... and then have the drum kit list/palette follow the mouse around so that it always appears to the left of the current row, in line with the grid currently being edited. Also, functions related to this: providing option-click to erase the current drum, regardless of what it is; and control-click for more options (as you suggest).
2. The ability to name a set of bars is fine, I would like to be able to sequence them as the song need it, without copying it.
Yeah, I hear you on this; that's also on the idea list. Seems it would be cool if you could copy a section in the section list, and paste it in somewhere else, so that it functions like an alias to the first one. I am thinking that the bars would show up in the editor like usual, but with an indication that they are actually an alias for a pre-existing section elsewhere in the song -- any changes made to one would be made also to the original. Or, it could be locked so that changes could only be made to the original.
3. The granularity feature is fine but should be manageable by bar to keep a more compact interface.
In principle, I understand where you are coming from on this, and I think there is room for improvement. However, I'm wondering how to implement it in a way that would not cause widespread confusion. :) I think the first step is that I need to indicate, on a per-bar basis somehow, what the current granularity is -- i.e. what duration of note that a given beat division represents.
4. As a general remark, most of Mac users like the CTRL click (or right click) because it's fast. Many functions might be implemented that way and so being context sensitive (when you right click on a bar you get bar menu, on an instrument a menu about the instrument...)
Exact; I foresee the power here, and I just haven't had time to flesh it out yet. For example, I envision control-click to provide a velocity slider, so that you can alter the volume of a given drum/cymbal hit, etc.
That's it for today :-) I will play a little more with this demo and perhaps come back to you with more feedback.
Awesome; I love the suggestions, and look forward to your other ideas. By the way, I am copying this to the mailing list so people can get an idea what is is lying ahead; hope you don't mind! -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca
I think these are all great ideas. I am especially fond of the sequencing portion, as I've been wishing for that one for quite awhile now. :-) I'd also like to see an option to export all of the drum tracks to separate audio files, so the drums can be mixed and effected independently in pro tools if so desired. And if you're feeling really saucy, the ability to add reverb, delay, and other effects to each drum track would be nice. But I understand that you have to limit the scope at some point. When I had to use a PC, I used an app called LeafDrums, which was a lot like Doggiebox, and had the reverb/effects capability, as well as individual volume controls, which was kind of nice. Anyhow keep up the great work! -Bret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Kennedy" <ben@zygoat.ca> To: "François Rayer" <francois@4umusic.com> Cc: "Doggiebox" <doggiebox@lists.zygoat.ca> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 2:07 PM Subject: [doggiebox] Re: Doggiebox feedback On 09 2 2003 at 8:30 am -0500, François Rayer wrote:
So as musician, I downloaded it and play a little with it. These are the feedback and ideas I got about it, I hope this might help to make this thing to become ZeGreatThing ;-)
Hey François, Thanks a lot for the feedback, I appreciate it, and I'm glad you are having fun with Doggie :) All of your ideas are right on point; here are my thoughts:
You might propose to the user to set one instrument per line (on the left side of the bars) and so adding/removing a beat is just a click on the right place in the instruments/beats matrix. To keep the thing readable it's better if it adds the symbol of the instrument (like you do now).
Yep, I tend to agree. Originally, my goal was to simplify the whole grid by causing various drums to share spots -- for example, cymbals and hi hats which wouldn't typically be hit at the same time. However, I realise this does create extra hassle for quickly adding/removing things. As it happens, doing what you've illustrated in the JPEG is very much what I've had in mind for the near future. I am thinking of having a switchable mode, so that you can either use the current behaviour (compact five-line grid) or switch so that every instrument shows up in its own space... and then have the drum kit list/palette follow the mouse around so that it always appears to the left of the current row, in line with the grid currently being edited. Also, functions related to this: providing option-click to erase the current drum, regardless of what it is; and control-click for more options (as you suggest).
2. The ability to name a set of bars is fine, I would like to be able to sequence them as the song need it, without copying it.
Yeah, I hear you on this; that's also on the idea list. Seems it would be cool if you could copy a section in the section list, and paste it in somewhere else, so that it functions like an alias to the first one. I am thinking that the bars would show up in the editor like usual, but with an indication that they are actually an alias for a pre-existing section elsewhere in the song -- any changes made to one would be made also to the original. Or, it could be locked so that changes could only be made to the original.
3. The granularity feature is fine but should be manageable by bar to keep a more compact interface.
In principle, I understand where you are coming from on this, and I think there is room for improvement. However, I'm wondering how to implement it in a way that would not cause widespread confusion. :) I think the first step is that I need to indicate, on a per-bar basis somehow, what the current granularity is -- i.e. what duration of note that a given beat division represents.
4. As a general remark, most of Mac users like the CTRL click (or right click) because it's fast. Many functions might be implemented that way and so being context sensitive (when you right click on a bar you get bar menu, on an instrument a menu about the instrument...)
Exact; I foresee the power here, and I just haven't had time to flesh it out yet. For example, I envision control-click to provide a velocity slider, so that you can alter the volume of a given drum/cymbal hit, etc.
That's it for today :-) I will play a little more with this demo and perhaps come back to you with more feedback.
Awesome; I love the suggestions, and look forward to your other ideas. By the way, I am copying this to the mailing list so people can get an idea what is is lying ahead; hope you don't mind! -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca --------------------------------------------------------------------- Zygoat Doggiebox home page: http://www.zygoat.ca/products/doggiebox/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: doggiebox-unsubscribe@lists.zygoat.ca For additional commands, e-mail: doggiebox-help@lists.zygoat.ca
Great to hear all the ideas: 1) Independent volume controls per instrument and / or ability to export seperate instruments 2) Ability to keep initial beat when increasing resolution i.e. I first have 4/4 with some 4 highhats, two kicks and two snares; when i go to 64/64, those 8 notes should be in time where they ought to be and I can add additional notes from there. (Virtual Drummer does this) 3) In the interest of Staying Small, I'd prefer to have the effects layered in ProTools or Deck or another app. 4) Not really a feature request, but: What is DoggieBox doing when it samples an AIFF? Why is the resulting sound different from the input file? Coolest thing is building drum kits from sound sets, but it can get a little frustrating when you get The Perfect Snare from somewhere, and have it sound different once you've pulled it into the kit. Again, thanks, Ben and all the Zygoatians for this great tool - Steve On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Bret Van Horn wrote:
I think these are all great ideas. I am especially fond of the sequencing portion, as I've been wishing for that one for quite awhile now. :-)
I'd also like to see an option to export all of the drum tracks to separate audio files, so the drums can be mixed and effected independently in pro tools if so desired.
And if you're feeling really saucy, the ability to add reverb, delay, and other effects to each drum track would be nice. But I understand that you have to limit the scope at some point. When I had to use a PC, I used an app called LeafDrums, which was a lot like Doggiebox, and had the reverb/effects capability, as well as individual volume controls, which was kind of nice.
Anyhow keep up the great work!
-Bret
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Kennedy" <ben@zygoat.ca> To: "François Rayer" <francois@4umusic.com> Cc: "Doggiebox" <doggiebox@lists.zygoat.ca> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 2:07 PM Subject: [doggiebox] Re: Doggiebox feedback
On 09 2 2003 at 8:30 am -0500, François Rayer wrote:
So as musician, I downloaded it and play a little with it. These are the feedback and ideas I got about it, I hope this might help to make this thing to become ZeGreatThing ;-)
Hey François,
Thanks a lot for the feedback, I appreciate it, and I'm glad you are having fun with Doggie :)
All of your ideas are right on point; here are my thoughts:
You might propose to the user to set one instrument per line (on the left side of the bars) and so adding/removing a beat is just a click on the right place in the instruments/beats matrix. To keep the thing readable it's better if it adds the symbol of the instrument (like you do now).
Yep, I tend to agree. Originally, my goal was to simplify the whole grid by causing various drums to share spots -- for example, cymbals and hi hats which wouldn't typically be hit at the same time. However, I realise this does create extra hassle for quickly adding/removing things.
As it happens, doing what you've illustrated in the JPEG is very much what I've had in mind for the near future. I am thinking of having a switchable mode, so that you can either use the current behaviour (compact five-line grid) or switch so that every instrument shows up in its own space... and then have the drum kit list/palette follow the mouse around so that it always appears to the left of the current row, in line with the grid currently being edited.
Also, functions related to this: providing option-click to erase the current drum, regardless of what it is; and control-click for more options (as you suggest).
2. The ability to name a set of bars is fine, I would like to be able to sequence them as the song need it, without copying it.
Yeah, I hear you on this; that's also on the idea list. Seems it would be cool if you could copy a section in the section list, and paste it in somewhere else, so that it functions like an alias to the first one. I am thinking that the bars would show up in the editor like usual, but with an indication that they are actually an alias for a pre-existing section elsewhere in the song -- any changes made to one would be made also to the original. Or, it could be locked so that changes could only be made to the original.
3. The granularity feature is fine but should be manageable by bar to keep a more compact interface.
In principle, I understand where you are coming from on this, and I think there is room for improvement. However, I'm wondering how to implement it in a way that would not cause widespread confusion. :) I think the first step is that I need to indicate, on a per-bar basis somehow, what the current granularity is -- i.e. what duration of note that a given beat division represents.
4. As a general remark, most of Mac users like the CTRL click (or right click) because it's fast. Many functions might be implemented that way and so being context sensitive (when you right click on a bar you get bar menu, on an instrument a menu about the instrument...)
Exact; I foresee the power here, and I just haven't had time to flesh it out yet. For example, I envision control-click to provide a velocity slider, so that you can alter the volume of a given drum/cymbal hit, etc.
That's it for today :-) I will play a little more with this demo and perhaps come back to you with more feedback.
Awesome; I love the suggestions, and look forward to your other ideas.
By the way, I am copying this to the mailing list so people can get an idea what is is lying ahead; hope you don't mind!
-ben
-- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca
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These are all very cool ideas that I would love to see implemented. Additionally, I think there is a great opportunity for enhancing the sequencing abilities of Doggiebox. The interface focus could change, making the process of creating drum parts much easier. Basically, you'd base the entire editing interface on a song section (to use the terminology from the Doggiebox section marker list). Edits are made one section at a time, and all sections still appear in the section list. The interface twist is that, instead of piecing together a song in the editor window, you do it in a "song-map" window that's basically a table of the drum sections in the order you want them to be played back and, for each section, how many bars should be played, what the starting bar is, etc. A song could then be put together by dragging sections from the section list into the song-map. A song could quickly change by reordering the song-map list, changing any song-map section's playback parameters, or adding/deleting sections from the song-map. An example song might be comprised of the following sections, all 4 bars each: Intro, Verse, Chorus, Chorus2, and Interlude. Quickly arranging those sections into a song could result in something that looks like: Intro, Verse, Chorus, Verse, Chorus, Chorus2, Interlude, Chorus, Chorus2. Maybe you want the last Chorus2 to repeat - just double the number of bars it plays for. Maybe something's missing in the change from Chorus to Chorus2 - create a new section called ChorusTransition that's 1 bar long, put it in between the Chorus/Chorus2 sections, and have the related Chorus play only 3 instead of 4 bars. Maybe the first bar of the Chorus after the Interlude needs more symbols - create a new section called InterludeTransition, 1 bar long, place it after the Interlude, have that post-Interlude Chorus start on bar 2 and now play only 2 bars (since we also use ChorusTransition). At least for me, putting together and editing a song in this fashion would be a lot simpler than having a long editing window full of similar looking bars encompassing the entire song. Of course, there's no reason why the two forms of editing can't coexist simultaneously, having a switch for the editor to go between section and full song mode. Lets go back to that InterludeTransition. Say we just directly edit that first bar of Chorus after the Interlude. The software could automatically set up a new section called Fill1, insert Fill1 between the Interlude and Chorus in the song-map, and change that Chorus' starting bar to 2. Later, you could rename Fill1 to InterludeTransition. I'm interested in hearing other users' feedback on this. I was going to write a program based around this concept in the middle of last year but got sidetracked (aka married) and saw the first release of Doggiebox and wanted to see how it would develop. (Ben - I had this interface pretty fully spec'd out at one point. If you're interested in specifics, I'd be happy to go over them with you. Additionally, I'd be happy to help in coding some of this functionality if you wanted to focus on some of the other great features requested in this thread.) Thanks all, Eric On Monday, February 10, 2003, at 02:26 PM, Bret Van Horn wrote:
I think these are all great ideas. I am especially fond of the sequencing portion, as I've been wishing for that one for quite awhile now. :-)
I'd also like to see an option to export all of the drum tracks to separate audio files, so the drums can be mixed and effected independently in pro tools if so desired.
And if you're feeling really saucy, the ability to add reverb, delay, and other effects to each drum track would be nice. But I understand that you have to limit the scope at some point. When I had to use a PC, I used an app called LeafDrums, which was a lot like Doggiebox, and had the reverb/effects capability, as well as individual volume controls, which was kind of nice.
Anyhow keep up the great work!
-Bret
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Kennedy" <ben@zygoat.ca> To: "François Rayer" <francois@4umusic.com> Cc: "Doggiebox" <doggiebox@lists.zygoat.ca> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 2:07 PM Subject: [doggiebox] Re: Doggiebox feedback
On 09 2 2003 at 8:30 am -0500, François Rayer wrote:
So as musician, I downloaded it and play a little with it. These are the feedback and ideas I got about it, I hope this might help to make this thing to become ZeGreatThing ;-)
Hey François,
Thanks a lot for the feedback, I appreciate it, and I'm glad you are having fun with Doggie :)
All of your ideas are right on point; here are my thoughts:
You might propose to the user to set one instrument per line (on the left side of the bars) and so adding/removing a beat is just a click on the right place in the instruments/beats matrix. To keep the thing readable it's better if it adds the symbol of the instrument (like you do now).
Yep, I tend to agree. Originally, my goal was to simplify the whole grid by causing various drums to share spots -- for example, cymbals and hi hats which wouldn't typically be hit at the same time. However, I realise this does create extra hassle for quickly adding/removing things.
As it happens, doing what you've illustrated in the JPEG is very much what I've had in mind for the near future. I am thinking of having a switchable mode, so that you can either use the current behaviour (compact five-line grid) or switch so that every instrument shows up in its own space... and then have the drum kit list/palette follow the mouse around so that it always appears to the left of the current row, in line with the grid currently being edited.
Also, functions related to this: providing option-click to erase the current drum, regardless of what it is; and control-click for more options (as you suggest).
2. The ability to name a set of bars is fine, I would like to be able to sequence them as the song need it, without copying it.
Yeah, I hear you on this; that's also on the idea list. Seems it would be cool if you could copy a section in the section list, and paste it in somewhere else, so that it functions like an alias to the first one. I am thinking that the bars would show up in the editor like usual, but with an indication that they are actually an alias for a pre-existing section elsewhere in the song -- any changes made to one would be made also to the original. Or, it could be locked so that changes could only be made to the original.
3. The granularity feature is fine but should be manageable by bar to keep a more compact interface.
In principle, I understand where you are coming from on this, and I think there is room for improvement. However, I'm wondering how to implement it in a way that would not cause widespread confusion. :) I think the first step is that I need to indicate, on a per-bar basis somehow, what the current granularity is -- i.e. what duration of note that a given beat division represents.
4. As a general remark, most of Mac users like the CTRL click (or right click) because it's fast. Many functions might be implemented that way and so being context sensitive (when you right click on a bar you get bar menu, on an instrument a menu about the instrument...)
Exact; I foresee the power here, and I just haven't had time to flesh it out yet. For example, I envision control-click to provide a velocity slider, so that you can alter the volume of a given drum/cymbal hit, etc.
That's it for today :-) I will play a little more with this demo and perhaps come back to you with more feedback.
Awesome; I love the suggestions, and look forward to your other ideas.
By the way, I am copying this to the mailing list so people can get an idea what is is lying ahead; hope you don't mind!
-ben
-- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca
--------------------------------------------------------------------- Zygoat Doggiebox home page: http://www.zygoat.ca/products/doggiebox/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: doggiebox-unsubscribe@lists.zygoat.ca For additional commands, e-mail: doggiebox-help@lists.zygoat.ca
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This is exactly the sort of interface I was hoping to see in a future version! -Bret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Bailey" <ebailey@cs.stanford.edu> To: "Doggiebox" <doggiebox@lists.zygoat.ca> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [doggiebox] Re: Doggiebox feedback These are all very cool ideas that I would love to see implemented. Additionally, I think there is a great opportunity for enhancing the sequencing abilities of Doggiebox. The interface focus could change, making the process of creating drum parts much easier. Basically, you'd base the entire editing interface on a song section (to use the terminology from the Doggiebox section marker list). Edits are made one section at a time, and all sections still appear in the section list. The interface twist is that, instead of piecing together a song in the editor window, you do it in a "song-map" window that's basically a table of the drum sections in the order you want them to be played back and, for each section, how many bars should be played, what the starting bar is, etc. A song could then be put together by dragging sections from the section list into the song-map. A song could quickly change by reordering the song-map list, changing any song-map section's playback parameters, or adding/deleting sections from the song-map. An example song might be comprised of the following sections, all 4 bars each: Intro, Verse, Chorus, Chorus2, and Interlude. Quickly arranging those sections into a song could result in something that looks like: Intro, Verse, Chorus, Verse, Chorus, Chorus2, Interlude, Chorus, Chorus2. Maybe you want the last Chorus2 to repeat - just double the number of bars it plays for. Maybe something's missing in the change from Chorus to Chorus2 - create a new section called ChorusTransition that's 1 bar long, put it in between the Chorus/Chorus2 sections, and have the related Chorus play only 3 instead of 4 bars. Maybe the first bar of the Chorus after the Interlude needs more symbols - create a new section called InterludeTransition, 1 bar long, place it after the Interlude, have that post-Interlude Chorus start on bar 2 and now play only 2 bars (since we also use ChorusTransition). At least for me, putting together and editing a song in this fashion would be a lot simpler than having a long editing window full of similar looking bars encompassing the entire song. Of course, there's no reason why the two forms of editing can't coexist simultaneously, having a switch for the editor to go between section and full song mode. Lets go back to that InterludeTransition. Say we just directly edit that first bar of Chorus after the Interlude. The software could automatically set up a new section called Fill1, insert Fill1 between the Interlude and Chorus in the song-map, and change that Chorus' starting bar to 2. Later, you could rename Fill1 to InterludeTransition. I'm interested in hearing other users' feedback on this. I was going to write a program based around this concept in the middle of last year but got sidetracked (aka married) and saw the first release of Doggiebox and wanted to see how it would develop. (Ben - I had this interface pretty fully spec'd out at one point. If you're interested in specifics, I'd be happy to go over them with you. Additionally, I'd be happy to help in coding some of this functionality if you wanted to focus on some of the other great features requested in this thread.) Thanks all, Eric On Monday, February 10, 2003, at 02:26 PM, Bret Van Horn wrote:
I think these are all great ideas. I am especially fond of the sequencing portion, as I've been wishing for that one for quite awhile now. :-)
I'd also like to see an option to export all of the drum tracks to separate audio files, so the drums can be mixed and effected independently in pro tools if so desired.
And if you're feeling really saucy, the ability to add reverb, delay, and other effects to each drum track would be nice. But I understand that you have to limit the scope at some point. When I had to use a PC, I used an app called LeafDrums, which was a lot like Doggiebox, and had the reverb/effects capability, as well as individual volume controls, which was kind of nice.
Anyhow keep up the great work!
-Bret
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Kennedy" <ben@zygoat.ca> To: "François Rayer" <francois@4umusic.com> Cc: "Doggiebox" <doggiebox@lists.zygoat.ca> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 2:07 PM Subject: [doggiebox] Re: Doggiebox feedback
On 09 2 2003 at 8:30 am -0500, François Rayer wrote:
So as musician, I downloaded it and play a little with it. These are the feedback and ideas I got about it, I hope this might help to make this thing to become ZeGreatThing ;-)
Hey François,
Thanks a lot for the feedback, I appreciate it, and I'm glad you are having fun with Doggie :)
All of your ideas are right on point; here are my thoughts:
You might propose to the user to set one instrument per line (on the left side of the bars) and so adding/removing a beat is just a click on the right place in the instruments/beats matrix. To keep the thing readable it's better if it adds the symbol of the instrument (like you do now).
Yep, I tend to agree. Originally, my goal was to simplify the whole grid by causing various drums to share spots -- for example, cymbals and hi hats which wouldn't typically be hit at the same time. However, I realise this does create extra hassle for quickly adding/removing things.
As it happens, doing what you've illustrated in the JPEG is very much what I've had in mind for the near future. I am thinking of having a switchable mode, so that you can either use the current behaviour (compact five-line grid) or switch so that every instrument shows up in its own space... and then have the drum kit list/palette follow the mouse around so that it always appears to the left of the current row, in line with the grid currently being edited.
Also, functions related to this: providing option-click to erase the current drum, regardless of what it is; and control-click for more options (as you suggest).
2. The ability to name a set of bars is fine, I would like to be able to sequence them as the song need it, without copying it.
Yeah, I hear you on this; that's also on the idea list. Seems it would be cool if you could copy a section in the section list, and paste it in somewhere else, so that it functions like an alias to the first one. I am thinking that the bars would show up in the editor like usual, but with an indication that they are actually an alias for a pre-existing section elsewhere in the song -- any changes made to one would be made also to the original. Or, it could be locked so that changes could only be made to the original.
3. The granularity feature is fine but should be manageable by bar to keep a more compact interface.
In principle, I understand where you are coming from on this, and I think there is room for improvement. However, I'm wondering how to implement it in a way that would not cause widespread confusion. :) I think the first step is that I need to indicate, on a per-bar basis somehow, what the current granularity is -- i.e. what duration of note that a given beat division represents.
4. As a general remark, most of Mac users like the CTRL click (or right click) because it's fast. Many functions might be implemented that way and so being context sensitive (when you right click on a bar you get bar menu, on an instrument a menu about the instrument...)
Exact; I foresee the power here, and I just haven't had time to flesh it out yet. For example, I envision control-click to provide a velocity slider, so that you can alter the volume of a given drum/cymbal hit, etc.
That's it for today :-) I will play a little more with this demo and perhaps come back to you with more feedback.
Awesome; I love the suggestions, and look forward to your other ideas.
By the way, I am copying this to the mailing list so people can get an idea what is is lying ahead; hope you don't mind!
-ben
-- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca
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On 2/10/03 6:48 PM, "Eric Bailey" <ebailey@cs.stanford.edu> wrote:
These are all very cool ideas that I would love to see implemented.
Additionally, I think there is a great opportunity for enhancing the sequencing abilities of Doggiebox. The interface focus could change, making the process of creating drum parts much easier.
Basically, you'd base the entire editing interface on a song section (to use the terminology from the Doggiebox section marker list). Edits are made one section at a time, and all sections still appear in the section list.
I've already begun using two songs as a workaround to accomplish this very thing. I'll plan and polish in a short, easy-to-see-everything window, then copy and paste in to the appropriate location in the soon-to-be-finished song window.
The sequencing idea is a great one. There was an early Mac drum program called Different Drummer which unfortunately only supported 8 bit sounds, but had a nice graphical implementation of songs where you could nest loops on individual sections or sequences of sections. It was a very flexible and concise way to represent song structure (IMHO). -- Lee On 2/10/03 3:48 PM, "Eric Bailey" <ebailey@cs.stanford.edu> wrote:
These are all very cool ideas that I would love to see implemented.
Additionally, I think there is a great opportunity for enhancing the sequencing abilities of Doggiebox. The interface focus could change, making the process of creating drum parts much easier.
Basically, you'd base the entire editing interface on a song section (to use the terminology from the Doggiebox section marker list). Edits are made one section at a time, and all sections still appear in the section list.
The interface twist is that, instead of piecing together a song in the editor window, you do it in a "song-map" window that's basically a table of the drum sections in the order you want them to be played back and, for each section, how many bars should be played, what the starting bar is, etc.
A song could then be put together by dragging sections from the section list into the song-map. A song could quickly change by reordering the song-map list, changing any song-map section's playback parameters, or adding/deleting sections from the song-map.
An example song might be comprised of the following sections, all 4 bars each: Intro, Verse, Chorus, Chorus2, and Interlude. Quickly arranging those sections into a song could result in something that looks like: Intro, Verse, Chorus, Verse, Chorus, Chorus2, Interlude, Chorus, Chorus2.
Maybe you want the last Chorus2 to repeat - just double the number of bars it plays for.
Maybe something's missing in the change from Chorus to Chorus2 - create a new section called ChorusTransition that's 1 bar long, put it in between the Chorus/Chorus2 sections, and have the related Chorus play only 3 instead of 4 bars.
Maybe the first bar of the Chorus after the Interlude needs more symbols - create a new section called InterludeTransition, 1 bar long, place it after the Interlude, have that post-Interlude Chorus start on bar 2 and now play only 2 bars (since we also use ChorusTransition).
At least for me, putting together and editing a song in this fashion would be a lot simpler than having a long editing window full of similar looking bars encompassing the entire song. Of course, there's no reason why the two forms of editing can't coexist simultaneously, having a switch for the editor to go between section and full song mode.
Lets go back to that InterludeTransition. Say we just directly edit that first bar of Chorus after the Interlude. The software could automatically set up a new section called Fill1, insert Fill1 between the Interlude and Chorus in the song-map, and change that Chorus' starting bar to 2. Later, you could rename Fill1 to InterludeTransition.
I'm interested in hearing other users' feedback on this. I was going to write a program based around this concept in the middle of last year but got sidetracked (aka married) and saw the first release of Doggiebox and wanted to see how it would develop.
(Ben - I had this interface pretty fully spec'd out at one point. If you're interested in specifics, I'd be happy to go over them with you. Additionally, I'd be happy to help in coding some of this functionality if you wanted to focus on some of the other great features requested in this thread.)
Thanks all, Eric
participants (6)
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Ben Kennedy -
Bret Van Horn -
Eric Bailey -
lee gummerman -
Michael Carlyle -
Steve McNally