"D'oh! 4/4 rock beat again!?!" syndrome
On 02/02/2005, at 6:21 PM, adrian.delso@btopenworld.com wrote:
if you write songs, then I would strongly recommend that you always write your drum parts, afresh every time.
Strongly agree. Especially if you want the song to have its own groove... and a big part of the defining characteristics of a groove is how well the bass and other instruments interact with a drum track. My feeling is that if the drum track is a stock beat, the whole song will either fit it and sound stock as well (which is OK if you WANT that... but don't settle for it if that's NOT what you want), or fight against it (in a bad way) and be mushy. I understand the speed concerns, though... something else upon which I'd like to comment later. And yes, I agree with Carl that programming published drum TABs can be educational... as long as it's used for good, not for evil. Learn from them, then build your own that fit your songs even better. Three suggestions to get away from the typical 4/4 rock beat: 1. Switch a snare drum hit with a bass drum hit in the same place (or two) all the way through the pattern, or just leave one out. (ex. instead of "bass- snare- bass- snare" each measure, try "bass- bass- bass- snare" or "bass- snare- snare- bass" or "bass- .....- bass- snare" etc.) 2. Write lines two bars at a time. So instead of each measure being basically the same... "bass- snare- bass- snare" think in terms of a longer pattern to be repeated: "bass- snare- bass- bass snare- bass- bass- snare" 3. Expand each measure within DB (creating more subdivisions of each beat), and put the bass drum ANYWHERE but beat THREE. "B / / / S / / B / B B / S / B /" "1 / / / 2 / / / 3 / / / 4 / / /" Hope this helps. DC
On 03-Feb-2005 07:10, Dan Costello wrote:
if the drum track is a stock beat, the whole song will either fit it and sound stock as well (which is OK if you WANT that... but don't settle for it if that's NOT what you want), or fight against it (in a bad way) and be mushy.
This is certainly true, though I've been happy to start from a click or a stock beat and move things around as my ears tell me. The last dbsong I worked on for a demo, I started with a standard boom-chick beat, but then realized the kick on the 3 wasn't working for me. Did no more but move it over to the "3-and", and found that was enough to get the groove that had been in my head. (I'm not good at counting out rhythms, so I have to move things around by trial and error until I get them where I want :) But then in the "instrumental break" section of the same dbsong, I found that the kick wanted to go back to the 3, except when it wanted to follow the bass and guitar on some syncopated power chords for which, after a lot of futzing about, I ended up with: Crash1|o-----o-----o---| Crash2|--------------o-| Snare |o---o-----o-o---| Kick |o-----o-----o-o-| |1e&a2e&a3e&a4e&a| which I don't know if it was terribly realistic, but sounded cool to me :) And was a fair ways from its boom-chick beginnings.
I understand the speed concerns, though... something else upon which I'd like to comment later. And yes, I agree with Carl that programming published drum TABs can be educational... as long as it's used for good, not for evil. Learn from them, then build your own that fit your songs even better.
Just so. I've dbsonged bits of drum tab from various rock standards, but I'm not sure I've ever actually used a section of such in my pieces. Well ... I think I stole some fills from some places once, but I also think they later got mutated into something else :)
Three suggestions to get away from the typical 4/4 rock beat: 1. Switch a snare drum hit with a bass drum hit in the same place (or two) all the way through the pattern, or just leave one out. (ex. instead of "bass- snare- bass- snare" each measure, try "bass- bass- bass- snare" or "bass- snare- snare- bass" or "bass- .....- bass- snare" etc.) 2. Write lines two bars at a time. So instead of each measure being basically the same... "bass- snare- bass- snare" think in terms of a longer pattern to be repeated: "bass- snare- bass- bass snare- bass- bass- snare" 3. Expand each measure within DB (creating more subdivisions of each beat), and put the bass drum ANYWHERE but beat THREE. "B / / / S / / B / B B / S / B /" "1 / / / 2 / / / 3 / / / 4 / / /"
I commonly build myself 2-bar patterns, or longer sections for use where there's some particular series of transitions I hear in my head that don't lend themselves well to living in repeatable patterns. Similar to leaving out a given hit occasionally, one can also inject a little feel by using a different velocity hit (if you're using a kit with different velocities or accented/ghost hit samples). Using a similar snare-kick pattern with variants on cymbal hits can liven things up, too. And I've liked the effect of tweaking BPM a few beats up or down in different sections of the song. I tend to find myself going back to older dbsongs and making new versions, too. Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/
Good tips, Dan, to which I'd add (if I may): - use fills to signal structural changes, such as chord changes/modulation, start and finish of verse/chorus/bridge. If you can't think of a fill, try dropping all the drums out for a bar or just leaving the hats going or anything, really! Keep it fresh and surprising, as long it stays appropriate to your song. - remember most drummers have a maximum of four limbs! - drum tuition books are better for learning about timing and feel, than tab books, imo. The book I love is Toro's "Ten Commandments of R'nB drumming" and it is almost entirely practice pieces, with a few bits of tab for illustrative purposes. Also recommended "Play Rock'n Roll Drums" by Joel Rothman, WISE Publications and Christopher Norton's "Essential Guide to Pop Styles for Keyboard", Boosey and Hawkes. Yes, Keyboard, but it also sketches in drum accompaniment possibilites for each style, which are very good for building your chops, on using Doggiebox. I'll shut up now. Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Costello" <stellaswindow@earthlink.net> To: <doggiebox@lists.zygoat.ca> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:10 AM Subject: [Doggiebox] "D'oh! 4/4 rock beat again!?!" syndrome
On 02/02/2005, at 6:21 PM, adrian.delso@btopenworld.com wrote:
if you write songs, then I would strongly recommend that you always write your drum parts, afresh every time.
Strongly agree. Especially if you want the song to have its own groove... and a big part of the defining characteristics of a groove is how well the bass and other instruments interact with a drum track. My feeling is that if the drum track is a stock beat, the whole song will either fit it and sound stock as well (which is OK if you WANT that... but don't settle for it if that's NOT what you want), or fight against it (in a bad way) and be mushy. I understand the speed concerns, though... something else upon which I'd like to comment later. And yes, I agree with Carl that programming published drum TABs can be educational... as long as it's used for good, not for evil. Learn from them, then build your own that fit your songs even better.
Three suggestions to get away from the typical 4/4 rock beat: 1. Switch a snare drum hit with a bass drum hit in the same place (or two) all the way through the pattern, or just leave one out. (ex. instead of "bass- snare- bass- snare" each measure, try "bass- bass- bass- snare" or "bass- snare- snare- bass" or "bass- .....- bass- snare" etc.) 2. Write lines two bars at a time. So instead of each measure being basically the same... "bass- snare- bass- snare" think in terms of a longer pattern to be repeated: "bass- snare- bass- bass snare- bass- bass- snare" 3. Expand each measure within DB (creating more subdivisions of each beat), and put the bass drum ANYWHERE but beat THREE. "B / / / S / / B / B B / S / B /" "1 / / / 2 / / / 3 / / / 4 / / /"
Hope this helps. DC ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Zygoat Doggiebox discussion list - <http://www.doggiebox.com> To unsubscribe, view archives or change your options: <http://lists.zygoat.ca/mailman/listinfo/doggiebox>
Dan, Thanks for that, I'll give it a go in the next few weeks - 4/4 rock beat be-gone I say .... Cheers Charlie On 03/02/2005, at 3:10 PM, Dan Costello wrote:
Three suggestions to get away from the typical 4/4 rock beat: 1. Switch a snare drum hit with a bass drum hit in the same place (or two) all the way through the pattern, or just leave one out. (ex. instead of "bass- snare- bass- snare" each measure, try "bass- bass- bass- snare" or "bass- snare- snare- bass" or "bass- .....- bass- snare" etc.) 2. Write lines two bars at a time. So instead of each measure being basically the same... "bass- snare- bass- snare" think in terms of a longer pattern to be repeated: "bass- snare- bass- bass snare- bass- bass- snare" 3. Expand each measure within DB (creating more subdivisions of each beat), and put the bass drum ANYWHERE but beat THREE. "B / / / S / / B / B B / S / B /" "1 / / / 2 / / / 3 / / / 4 / / /"
Hope this helps. DC
participants (4)
-
adrian.delsoï¼ btopenworld.com -
Carl Edlund Anderson -
Charlie -
Dan Costello