Hey gang,
Long-time Doggiebox user but haven't been on the list for awhile. As I was just re-subscribing I read about the new versions that Ben has been putting out this summer. Just downloaded the newest. Great work!
I'm actually writing with a question regarding MIDI export. Traditionally I've used Doggiebox for coming up with complete drumkit arrangements, which I would then export as stereo WAV files and use in making demos. Concurrently, I've always arranged my instrumental parts (minus drums) in Finale. After years of doing this, I decided I'd actually like to try putting them together - namely, importing MIDI from Doggiebox and Finale into Pro Tools and running the data through Kontakt for sounds.
My problem is that the tempo/duration of the Doggiebox and Finale files are not identical, despite the BPMs and measure numbers being the same on both. I've tried combining tracks for a few of my songs and it seems like the drums always begin to lag behind the Finale tracks.
I'm running OS X 10.5.8, Pro Tools 7.4 and a M-Audio ProFire LightBridge.
Anybody experienced in this realm and know what I might do to remedy this problem? I'd be glad to provide MIDI files for anyone to analyze. This could be the key to me completing a long-delayed album, so I owe a huge debt of gratitude to whomever may help me figure this out. Thanks!
Jack
Jack Saturn wrote at 9:49 PM (-0700) on 9/5/10:
My problem is that the tempo/duration of the Doggiebox and Finale files are not identical, despite the BPMs and measure numbers being the same on both. I've tried combining tracks for a few of my songs and it seems like the drums always begin to lag behind the Finale tracks.
Hmm. I will do some analysis on this; thanks for bringing it to my attention! Clearly there should be no defensible reason for tempo drift, particularly in a percussion sequencer...
If you do waveform exports (as opposed to MIDI), do they line up correctly with Finale? Or do they exhibit a drift as well?
cheers,
b
Ben,
Just upgraded to Pro Tools 8 so I can continue to troubleshoot the MIDI export problem.
For my testing I exported: - a MIDI drum track from Doggiebox, 115 BPM - a stereo WAV file (24 bit, 48000 sample rate) from Doggiebox, 115 BPM - a MIDI instrument file from Finale, 115 BPM
I imported all three into Pro Tools. The stereo WAV file lines up perfectly with the Finale MIDI files, so there's no problem there.
The Doggiebox MIDI drums, however, don't seem to truly be 115 BPM. On the timeline the MIDI drums extend for an additional bar, a difference of almost 2 seconds.
I could send you an MP3 and a screenshot if you'd like to take a look. Any ideas?
Additionally, I'm noticing a problem in Doggiebox when attempting to export the MIDI - sometimes it won't actually save. I managed to get it to save by creating new folders and creating longer filenames; I have a suspicion the latter may be the culprit...
Jack
Jack Saturn wrote at 9:49 PM (-0700) on 9/5/10:
My problem is that the tempo/duration of the Doggiebox and Finale files are not identical, despite the BPMs and measure numbers being the same on both. I've tried combining tracks for a few of my songs and it seems like the drums always begin to lag behind the Finale tracks.
Hmm. I will do some analysis on this; thanks for bringing it to my attention! Clearly there should be no defensible reason for tempo drift, particularly in a percussion sequencer...
If you do waveform exports (as opposed to MIDI), do they line up correctly with Finale? Or do they exhibit a drift as well?
cheers,
b
-- Ben Kennedy (chief magician) zygoat creative technical services http://www.zygoat.ca
Jack Saturn wrote at 5:32 PM (-0700) on 9/20/10:
I imported all three into Pro Tools. The stereo WAV file lines up perfectly with the Finale MIDI files, so there's no problem there.
The Doggiebox MIDI drums, however, don't seem to truly be 115 BPM. On the timeline the MIDI drums extend for an additional bar, a difference of almost 2 seconds.
Hey Jack,
Thanks for this analysis. I've finally had some opportunity to delve into it, but unfortunately I haven't been able to reproduce the problem!
I've created 2-minute long tracks at various bpm (60, 115, 120), exported to MIDI as well as AIFF at both 44.1 and 48.0 Khz, and pulled them in to Nuendo, and... they all seem to line up perfectly.
Can you send me off-list a Doggiebox song file, along with the exact export specifications that seem to exhibit this?
Additionally, I'm noticing a problem in Doggiebox when attempting to export the MIDI - sometimes it won't actually save. I managed to get it to save by creating new folders and creating longer filenames; I have a suspicion the latter may be the culprit...
Several users have also reported similar problems where the files seem not to save in one location or with one name, but then do in another. So far I have not been able to identify a common set of circumstances, but I will continue to see if I can figure this out -- as you might guess, I haven't experienced the problem yet myself in casual use.
cheers,
-ben
-
Ben Kennedy -
Jack Saturn