I am about to begin work on a massive drum kit project, and wanted some feedback. I am essentially planning on selling several ready to use DB kits. I would also be posting smaller freeware versions of the same kits. Here are the basics: Each kit will consist of over 100 high quality original samples played by a professional and recorded as CD quality or better AIFF files. This means about 8-16 drums, cymbals, and toys at multiple volume levels. Freeware versions would use around 20-25 of the same samples. (most kits in the current DB library have between 15 and 35 samples) Kits will be fully assembled, ready to use .dbkit format with embedded samples and will include a PDF with pictures and descriptions of the instruments being played, and around a dozen sample rhythms representative of the included instruments. This is what we're planning so far, subject to change: Rock Kit: Snare (This for example will have Hit- 8 volume levels, Rimshot- 4 levels, Rim Edge- 2 levels), Popcorn Snare, Kick, 3 toms, Crash/Ride, Thin Crash, Med Crash, China, Splash, Cowbell, Sticks Jazz Kit: Brush hits on Snare (including drag and extra levels of volume), Kick, 3 Toms, Ride, 2 Crash Freeware version will just be the snare- about 20 different kinds of hits. Latin Percussion Kit: 4 Congas, 2 Bongos, High and Low Timbale, Maracas, Cabaca, Guiro, Cowbell, 3 Woodblocks, Clave, Vibraslap. Freeware version will have 2 Congas, Maraca, Cowbell, and Clave. African Percussion Kit: 12" and 14" Djembes, 3 Djundjun, 2 bells, and a pair of metal shakers The single Djembe will still be freeware. Junkyard Kit: A huge (200-300 samples) kit of various and sundry bits of wood, metal, and plastic being struck by other bits of wood, metal, and plastic. Think Stomp, or cutting-edge industrial stuff. Misc. Percussion Kit Various percussion items that we're still deciding on. Rest assured, this has been cleared with Ben, and he gave it a thumbs up, although we still have details to work out. Any feedback you could give me would be appreciated. What else would you like to see incorporated into the above? How much would you pay for these kits individually or a set? Would you rather see a download or CDs? What other sorts of kits would you like to see? Any other ideas.....? -Mike Dolan, The Reverend Rat
I'd rather see you sell the samples and allow users to build their own kits, if desired. I assume these are new and original recorded samples that are not available anywhere else. My recent nskit is about 50 megs, with embedded samples. Do you think most users would be able to download it? If not, I think the CD option should at least be offered. As for how much I would pay? I suppose that I would feel funny if I had to pay more than I did for Doggiebox itself. I can't remember what that was. Something like 29 bucks maybe? I would suggest to you that offering the most flexible product packaging is key, as long as it doesn't drive your actual costs up. In other words, offer "loose" samples, kits on CD, kits for download, icon packages, whatever you think someone might want to buy. Offering only ready made kits and making them available in one format only might stem some potenial income. On Aug 27, 2004, at 6:26 PM, Michael Dolan wrote:
I am about to begin work on a massive drum kit project, and wanted some feedback. I am essentially planning on selling several ready to use DB kits. I would also be posting smaller freeware versions of the same kits. Here are the basics:
Each kit will consist of over 100 high quality original samples played by a professional and recorded as CD quality or better AIFF files. This means about 8-16 drums, cymbals, and toys at multiple volume levels. Freeware versions would use around 20-25 of the same samples. (most kits in the current DB library have between 15 and 35 samples) Kits will be fully assembled, ready to use .dbkit format with embedded samples and will include a PDF with pictures and descriptions of the instruments being played, and around a dozen sample rhythms representative of the included instruments. This is what we're planning so far, subject to change:
Rock Kit: Snare (This for example will have Hit- 8 volume levels, Rimshot- 4 levels, Rim Edge- 2 levels), Popcorn Snare, Kick, 3 toms, Crash/Ride, Thin Crash, Med Crash, China, Splash, Cowbell, Sticks
Jazz Kit: Brush hits on Snare (including drag and extra levels of volume), Kick, 3 Toms, Ride, 2 Crash Freeware version will just be the snare- about 20 different kinds of hits.
Latin Percussion Kit: 4 Congas, 2 Bongos, High and Low Timbale, Maracas, Cabaca, Guiro, Cowbell, 3 Woodblocks, Clave, Vibraslap. Freeware version will have 2 Congas, Maraca, Cowbell, and Clave.
African Percussion Kit: 12" and 14" Djembes, 3 Djundjun, 2 bells, and a pair of metal shakers The single Djembe will still be freeware.
Junkyard Kit: A huge (200-300 samples) kit of various and sundry bits of wood, metal, and plastic being struck by other bits of wood, metal, and plastic. Think Stomp, or cutting-edge industrial stuff.
Misc. Percussion Kit Various percussion items that we're still deciding on.
Rest assured, this has been cleared with Ben, and he gave it a thumbs up, although we still have details to work out. Any feedback you could give me would be appreciated. What else would you like to see incorporated into the above? How much would you pay for these kits individually or a set? Would you rather see a download or CDs? What other sorts of kits would you like to see? Any other ideas.....?
-Mike Dolan, The Reverend Rat
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On 27 Aug 2004, at 23:54, Mike Carlyle wrote:
I'd rather see you sell the samples and allow users to build their own kits, if desired. I assume these are new and original recorded samples that are not available anywhere else.
Good quality reasonably priced samples are, I think, always a valuable commodity. There are lots of very expensive sample packs available, well outside the home hobbyist's budget (even the relatively keen home hobbyist), and it's usally extremely difficult to find out anything about the nature of the samples themselves. Hell, I've looked around for ages trying to find some affordable ethnic percussion, and it's damn near impossible to find out what you would be spending all that money _on_! So I haven't bought any. I'm not rich enough to spend money on something that I have to hope doesn't suck :P And I would say that good, well-documented collections of samples at "shareware-style" prices would quickly find a market in these days of GarageBand and ProTools. (Of course, I would say that, since I am part of that market :) That said, there's no reason not to have separate pricing structure for complete dbkit and samples-only. While I like messing around with kit building and kit bashing (to steal a turn of phrase from the plastic modelers :) I could probably be convinced to cough up a few bucks for a ready made Latin kit. After all, I could always tweak it to my own satisfaction later. But definitely the valuable part is the samples -- without samples, no kit. With samples, anyone can make a kit, given time and -- much as in the case of ns_kit, share it about pretty easily to anyone else with the samples. You might even consider selling the samples and having free dbkits as an incentive for people to buy your samples ("look, this dbkit is all set up to go ... if you have my sample pack!").
My recent nskit is about 50 megs, with embedded samples. Do you think most users would be able to download it? If not, I think the CD option should at least be offered.
One could always charge extra for the CD.
As for how much I would pay? I suppose that I would feel funny if I had to pay more than I did for Doggiebox itself. I can't remember what that was. Something like 29 bucks maybe?
Current price is USD39, I think. And not being a pro, I couldn't possibly afford more than that anyway. Actually, I couldn't afford more than rather less.
I would suggest to you that offering the most flexible product packaging is key, as long as it doesn't drive your actual costs up. In other words, offer "loose" samples, kits on CD, kits for download, icon packages, whatever you think someone might want to buy. Offering only ready made kits and making them available in one format only might stem some potenial income.
I would concur with that analysis. I would probably get the freeware version an screw around with it, and if I thought it was cool, I'd spring for the full-on version. I mean, that's kind of how shareware works. It's kind of how I got Doggiebox :) Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/
This is a great project. In the latin kit, don't forget the side of the timbales (paila). It would be great also to have good hand claps in the flamenco style (palmas) and good samples of a cajon (flamenco box). In the african set, a derbucca would be essential, I think. Hope that helps Robert Pelletier Le Vendredi, 27 août 2004, à 18:26 US/Eastern, Michael Dolan a écrit :
I am about to begin work on a massive drum kit project, and wanted some feedback. I am essentially planning on selling several ready to use DB kits. I would also be posting smaller freeware versions of the same kits. Here are the basics:
Each kit will consist of over 100 high quality original samples played by a professional and recorded as CD quality or better AIFF files. This means about 8-16 drums, cymbals, and toys at multiple volume levels. Freeware versions would use around 20-25 of the same samples. (most kits in the current DB library have between 15 and 35 samples) Kits will be fully assembled, ready to use .dbkit format with embedded samples and will include a PDF with pictures and descriptions of the instruments being played, and around a dozen sample rhythms representative of the included instruments. This is what we're planning so far, subject to change:
Rock Kit: Snare (This for example will have Hit- 8 volume levels, Rimshot- 4 levels, Rim Edge- 2 levels), Popcorn Snare, Kick, 3 toms, Crash/Ride, Thin Crash, Med Crash, China, Splash, Cowbell, Sticks
Jazz Kit: Brush hits on Snare (including drag and extra levels of volume), Kick, 3 Toms, Ride, 2 Crash Freeware version will just be the snare- about 20 different kinds of hits.
Latin Percussion Kit: 4 Congas, 2 Bongos, High and Low Timbale, Maracas, Cabaca, Guiro, Cowbell, 3 Woodblocks, Clave, Vibraslap. Freeware version will have 2 Congas, Maraca, Cowbell, and Clave.
African Percussion Kit: 12" and 14" Djembes, 3 Djundjun, 2 bells, and a pair of metal shakers The single Djembe will still be freeware.
Junkyard Kit: A huge (200-300 samples) kit of various and sundry bits of wood, metal, and plastic being struck by other bits of wood, metal, and plastic. Think Stomp, or cutting-edge industrial stuff.
Misc. Percussion Kit Various percussion items that we're still deciding on.
Rest assured, this has been cleared with Ben, and he gave it a thumbs up, although we still have details to work out. Any feedback you could give me would be appreciated. What else would you like to see incorporated into the above? How much would you pay for these kits individually or a set? Would you rather see a download or CDs? What other sorts of kits would you like to see? Any other ideas.....?
-Mike Dolan, The Reverend Rat
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Robert Pelletier
On 28 Aug 2004, at 00:31, Robert Pelletier wrote:
In the latin kit, don't forget the side of the timbales (paila). It would be great also to have good hand claps in the flamenco style (palmas) and good samples of a cajon (flamenco box).
And a caja and a guacharaca (vallenato) (OK, I suppose the bongo and guiro would do at a pinch ;) Tambourines and shakers would be cool, though I guess I could always play those live myself :) or slurp up the ones from GarageBand. IMO, multiple velocities are a must and -- and in a Latin or African kit with hand drums, so are various different kinds of hits: open, slap, bass, muted, touch, tumbao heel, tumbao fingers, all that sort of thing, and with the left and right hands. Certainly one would want to be able to reproduce in DoggieBox the kinds of hits seen in hand drum tab/notation. Man, I would totally go for that! :) I haven't really found anything that seems to cover all that sort of thing. Maybe it's there in huge sample collections that cost zillions of dollars, but who will ever know? Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/
participants (4)
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Carl Edlund Anderson -
Michael Dolan -
Mike Carlyle -
Robert Pelletier