Playing around the beat...
Hi Ben and list, I tried the Doggiebox demo a few times last year but I finally bought a licence with the new release. The addition of the playlist was great and makes the package much more versatile. I am a bass player and I now use DBox every time I practise to keep me tight. I have a suggestion. I play a bit of swing jazz etc. and wonder have you looked at putting in a beat location type of slider. Where you could adjust the feel of the drum to be on the beat or to lag or push around the beat. I don't know how other drum sequencers simulate this effect that you get when playing swing with a real drummer but this could give the patterns some more groove. Thanks Ben. Aaron Brisbane, Australia P.S. I think I may have noticed a bug. The pattern icons on the screen do not update when the drum kit is changed. The mouse must be moved over or the pattern or playlist settings changed so that the display updates.
On 15 8 2004 at 2:11 am -0400, Aaron Saunders wrote:
I have a suggestion. I play a bit of swing jazz etc. and wonder have you looked at putting in a beat location type of slider. Where you could adjust the feel of the drum to be on the beat or to lag or push around the beat.
This is a good idea and is on the todo list. I see two fundamental ways that this could be implemented: - as a destructive method, whereby you select some drums and apply the operation, which will shift around their positions to effect the appropriate swing rhythm; - as a kind of "attribute" that can be applied to some drums, kind of like bold or italic in a word processor, which will dynamically effect the rhythm. The latter is probably the coolest way to do this, but requires some conceptual redesign in the interface. However there are a lot of things that will benefit from such a redesign, so other ideas along these lines are welcome as the Next Doggie begins to take shape.
P.S. I think I may have noticed a bug. The pattern icons on the screen do not update when the drum kit is changed. The mouse must be moved over or the pattern or playlist settings changed so that the display updates.
True, thanks for reminding me about this, I will fix it eventually. :) -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca
If you decide to go with an attribute method I'd love to chime in my two cents and request that this be an "attribute" that lives (cumulatively) in a number of places. For instance, I'd love to (in rough order of priority): (a) shift any particular hit in any particular section (b) shift specific beats (columns) in a bar (this is so i could create a "global" swing feel to map on to an arbitrary song or section). (c) shift all hits of a particular instrument type (d) shift all hits of a particular instrument type & variant (e) shift all hits of a particular "place" When I say "shift" I mean a percentage, -100.0..100.0, of a beat division (i.e. %age of a 1/8th note if it is 6/8, 7/8, etc. time, or %age of a 1/4 note if it is 2/4, 3/4, 4/4, etc. time). It would also be nice if the UI gave some hints as to %ages that aligned to 1/16ths, 1/32nds, 1/64ths, etc. just for convenience. It might be nice to have an option that limits the shift to the preceding or subsequent note if that note is closer than a beat division. Either that or just cancels the shift if it detects this case. When I say "cumulative" I mean that if you have shifts of type (a), (b), (c), (d) and (e) then the total shift is the sum of all the shifts (clipped to -100..100 or the preceding/following note). And one final request... (tell me to piss of if this is getting silly). A "copy & shift" command where it plays the original beat as well as the shifted beat so I can simulate flams and stuff easily. Ok. I'll stop now. ;-) And just so this isn't all about me and my needs... If anyone has requests/complaints about the "70s_Ludwig_Kit" I'd be happy to consider them. I've already got a closed-hi-hat version of the kit and am adding more dynamics to the cymbal sounds. Hopefully I'll have something to share in the next month or so. Cheers, David. On Aug 16, 2004, at 9:58 AM, Ben Kennedy wrote:
On 15 8 2004 at 2:11 am -0400, Aaron Saunders wrote:
I have a suggestion. I play a bit of swing jazz etc. and wonder have you looked at putting in a beat location type of slider. Where you could adjust the feel of the drum to be on the beat or to lag or push around the beat.
This is a good idea and is on the todo list.
I see two fundamental ways that this could be implemented:
- as a destructive method, whereby you select some drums and apply the operation, which will shift around their positions to effect the appropriate swing rhythm; - as a kind of "attribute" that can be applied to some drums, kind of like bold or italic in a word processor, which will dynamically effect the rhythm.
The latter is probably the coolest way to do this, but requires some conceptual redesign in the interface. However there are a lot of things that will benefit from such a redesign, so other ideas along these lines are welcome as the Next Doggie begins to take shape.
P.S. I think I may have noticed a bug. The pattern icons on the screen do not update when the drum kit is changed. The mouse must be moved over or the pattern or playlist settings changed so that the display updates.
True, thanks for reminding me about this, I will fix it eventually. :)
-ben
-- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca
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I absolutely LOVE the approach that you used to build your kit. When I realize how silly I was, trying to build your "buzz" and "flam" hits with carefully spaced sounds from my ns_kit, I have to totally rethink my approach. That's how eye-opening it was for me. I would love to hear another cymbal added to the one that's there now, and would prefer more dynamics to the ride, rather than the crash. Also, the kick sounds very full, to the point of being muffled. I don't know if that's a true representation of your kit or the character of that drum, but it can be tricky to make it sit nice in a mix. I take it that drum has both heads? It sounds great, just bassy and without a lot of definition. I had planned to do some eq on the bass drum and re-integrate it back into the kit. On Aug 16, 2004, at 8:17 PM, David Holloway wrote:
And just so this isn't all about me and my needs... If anyone has requests/complaints about the "70s_Ludwig_Kit" I'd be happy to consider them. I've already got a closed-hi-hat version of the kit and am adding more dynamics to the cymbal sounds. Hopefully I'll have something to share in the next month or so.
Cheers, David.
On Aug 16, 2004, at 9:58 AM, Ben Kennedy wrote:
On 15 8 2004 at 2:11 am -0400, Aaron Saunders wrote:
I have a suggestion. I play a bit of swing jazz etc. and wonder have you looked at putting in a beat location type of slider. Where you could adjust the feel of the drum to be on the beat or to lag or push around the beat.
This is a good idea and is on the todo list.
I see two fundamental ways that this could be implemented:
- as a destructive method, whereby you select some drums and apply the operation, which will shift around their positions to effect the appropriate swing rhythm; - as a kind of "attribute" that can be applied to some drums, kind of like bold or italic in a word processor, which will dynamically effect the rhythm.
The latter is probably the coolest way to do this, but requires some conceptual redesign in the interface. However there are a lot of things that will benefit from such a redesign, so other ideas along these lines are welcome as the Next Doggie begins to take shape.
P.S. I think I may have noticed a bug. The pattern icons on the screen do not update when the drum kit is changed. The mouse must be moved over or the pattern or playlist settings changed so that the display updates.
True, thanks for reminding me about this, I will fix it eventually. :)
-ben
-- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca
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Thanks, I'm glad you're enjoying it. It was sure fun to put together. I agree with you about the levels on the bass drum. I'm planning to sort out the levels a bit better with it. The drum itself is a 15x22 with a Aquarian Superkick on the batter side and an Evens black resonant head with a small mic hole. There's no additional muffling. I have a double-bass pedal so when I want a very muffled sound I've been trying to train my left foot to mute the drum on the fly. I should probably make a recording of that and throw it in. The drum was miked with an SM-57 and a Beta-52 to try and capture the low end punch as well as some overtones. I have a small splash cymbal and just picked up a super trashy 18" crash that is bent up and has rivets all through it. Those'd be fun to include. When I re-do the cymbal sounds I'll definitely include more dynamics and a "choked" sound seems useful too. I've been trying to use more chokes in my playing these days. On the ride, one thing that occurred to me as useful is a quick double stroke. I've been listening to a lot of jazz lately and those jazz guys seem to be cheating a bit on the "ah-1"/"ah-3" by using a quick double at really fast (bop) tempos. Thanks for the feedback. Cheers, David. On Aug 16, 2004, at 5:39 PM, Mike Carlyle wrote:
I absolutely LOVE the approach that you used to build your kit. When I realize how silly I was, trying to build your "buzz" and "flam" hits with carefully spaced sounds from my ns_kit, I have to totally rethink my approach. That's how eye-opening it was for me.
I would love to hear another cymbal added to the one that's there now, and would prefer more dynamics to the ride, rather than the crash. Also, the kick sounds very full, to the point of being muffled. I don't know if that's a true representation of your kit or the character of that drum, but it can be tricky to make it sit nice in a mix. I take it that drum has both heads? It sounds great, just bassy and without a lot of definition.
I had planned to do some eq on the bass drum and re-integrate it back into the kit.
On Aug 16, 2004, at 8:17 PM, David Holloway wrote:
And just so this isn't all about me and my needs... If anyone has requests/complaints about the "70s_Ludwig_Kit" I'd be happy to consider them. I've already got a closed-hi-hat version of the kit and am adding more dynamics to the cymbal sounds. Hopefully I'll have something to share in the next month or so.
Cheers, David.
On Aug 16, 2004, at 9:58 AM, Ben Kennedy wrote:
On 15 8 2004 at 2:11 am -0400, Aaron Saunders wrote:
I have a suggestion. I play a bit of swing jazz etc. and wonder have you looked at putting in a beat location type of slider. Where you could adjust the feel of the drum to be on the beat or to lag or push around the beat.
This is a good idea and is on the todo list.
I see two fundamental ways that this could be implemented:
- as a destructive method, whereby you select some drums and apply the operation, which will shift around their positions to effect the appropriate swing rhythm; - as a kind of "attribute" that can be applied to some drums, kind of like bold or italic in a word processor, which will dynamically effect the rhythm.
The latter is probably the coolest way to do this, but requires some conceptual redesign in the interface. However there are a lot of things that will benefit from such a redesign, so other ideas along these lines are welcome as the Next Doggie begins to take shape.
P.S. I think I may have noticed a bug. The pattern icons on the screen do not update when the drum kit is changed. The mouse must be moved over or the pattern or playlist settings changed so that the display updates.
True, thanks for reminding me about this, I will fix it eventually. :)
-ben
-- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca
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participants (4)
-
Aaron Saunders -
Ben Kennedy -
David Holloway -
Mike Carlyle