Folks,
A new build is up at http://www.doggiebox.com/distribution/Doggiebox- 1C3.zip for your boxing pleasure!
Following are the release notes as included in the archive. Please read them through, then play around with drum kits with the new build and let me know if you run into any anomalies or performance issues.
As you will see, I have tried to devise a neat solution to the "recipe" idea that has been bandied about on this list for some time. Provided that this works as well as planned, it should provide an almost- transparent way to create and distribute "recipe"-based drum kits while requiring virtually no new learning curve for the end user.
Let me know how it goes, and hopefully we can finally get some distributable ns_kit and GarageBand dbkits moving around!
-ben
------------------------------
Notes for 1C3 (11 May 2004):
This build contains some major improvements to the underlying mechanics of drum kit system, facilitating faster load times for songs as well as support for linked (as opposed to embedded) sound files.
The .dbkit file format has changed in this version and now uses a "bundle" (enclosed subdirectory) format. On systems running a pre-1C3 version, new drum kits may appear in the Finder as a folder containing several files. If the included "GB Rock Drums.dbkit" appears to be a folder (instead of a file with the usual dbkit icon), make sure you delete any older copies of Doggiebox. You may also have to logout and re-login.
Waveform data for each drum sound is now stored individually in the drum kit and each is loaded on demand as required, as opposed to all waveforms for the entire kit loading at once as before. This should result in better memory management, as well as faster response when opening drum kits and song files (particularly noticable with large drum kits).
To upgrade existing kits to the new format, simply open them up in the drum kit editor and re-save them.
In addition to deferred loading, the new kit format now also facilitates linking to external sound files as opposed to saving them within the drum kit file. This way, it is now possible to create kits based on audio repositories from other sources (such as GarageBand and ns_kit) and exchange them with others without having to duplicate and transport all of the audio data.
If you attempt to use a drum kit containing linked sounds which you did not assemble, it is likely that Doggiebox will not initially know where to find the audio files. In such a case, the user will be automatically prompted to choose a folder in which to search for the sounds. Doggiebox will perform a recursive search and attempt to locate sound files matching the originally linked filenames, and remember them from then on.
CHANGES TO THE DRUM KIT EDITOR:
The drum list has a new column, labeled "Sound". Clicking in this column will activate a pop-up menu allowing you to specify whether to Embed or Link the waveform data for each drum sound. By default Doggiebox will Embed (as in previous versions), but you can also choose to Link, in which case the audio data for that drum will not be saved in the drum kit file.
Above the drum list is a button labeled "Fix Links", which will manually invoke the link resolution process by prompting you to choose a folder to scan for sound files. Doggiebox will then attempt to locate sound files for any broken links.
Before being prompted to choose a folder, an explanatory alert will be displayed. Clicking the "Set Prompt..." button allows you to customize the message that's shown. (It is advisable to provide some helpful text, depending on the nature of the drum kit, to point the user in the right direction. For example, "please choose the folder containing the files you downloaded from nskit.com").
The link-fixing process will be invoked automatically if you open a song file that uses a kit containing broken links.
OTHER CHANGES IN THIS BUILD:
No changes to MIDI since 1C2. Effort in this cycle was focused on the drum kit system only. Next build will contain MIDI improvements. (Is anybody actually testing MIDI? I have received zero feedback since 1C2.)
The master tempo slider in the song editor has been adjusted so that there should no longer be ambiguity about the middle setting really being 100%. Also, minor cosmetic changes to the push/pull tempo buttons.
GENERAL TESTING NOTES:
The included "GB Rock Drums.dbkit" is an initial (incomplete) effort at creating a dbkit for the Rock Drums kit supplied with Apple's GarageBand, using icons from the Reverend Rat's set. If you have GarageBand installed on your system, please attempt using this kit and report any problems you have making it work. If anyone would like to pick up the ball and complete this kit, I would encourage it -- please mention so on the mailing list so we can avoid duplication of effort. I would like to eventually have all of the GarageBand kits available for when Doggiebox 1.2 is ready for release. Same with ns_kit 7, too!
This build has been tested under 10.3.{3,4}, but not 10.2.
As usual, please report any and all feedback either to Ben or to the mailing list. Enjoy!
------------------------------
Again, it's snaggable at http://www.doggiebox.com/distribution/ Doggiebox-1C3.zip
Ben Kennedy wrote:
In addition to deferred loading, the new kit format now also facilitates linking to external sound files as opposed to saving them within the drum kit file. This way, it is now possible to create kits based on audio repositories from other sources (such as GarageBand and ns_kit) and exchange them with others without having to duplicate and transport all of the audio data.
This looks very cunning :) I'm keen to have a go with that.
No changes to MIDI since 1C2. Effort in this cycle was focused on the drum kit system only. Next build will contain MIDI improvements. (Is anybody actually testing MIDI? I have received zero feedback since 1C2.)
I have to admit I haven't tried it, but on the other hand I haven't got anything to try it _with_, excepting the ability to download SimpleSynth and try to get DB to talk to it ... which isn't much of a test, since if I remember aright, that's how you tested it. I'm kinda keeping my fingers crossed for versions of DB where MMC commands can be sent/received.
Cheers, Carl
On 12 5 2004 at 5:13 am -0400, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote:
I have to admit I haven't tried it, but on the other hand I haven't got anything to try it _with_, excepting the ability to download SimpleSynth and try to get DB to talk to it ... which isn't much of a test, since if I remember aright, that's how you tested it. I'm kinda keeping my fingers crossed for versions of DB where MMC commands can be sent/received.
I'm working on MIDI stuff now (after my couple of weeks digression on the linkable drum kit format). Promise I will have some MMC stuff for you in the next build. :)
Having said that, can you give me any more details on your machine, Carl? The best I've been able to find is: http://www.rolandus.com/products/ details.asp?CatID=12&SubCatID=48&ProdID=VS-1680&PageMode=19 Yet none of these documents talks about MMC (or MIDI at all) so far as I can tell. I'd like to get some more technical meat if I could, e.g., on what commands it listens for and sends, etc.
-ben
Ben Kennedy wrote:
I'm working on MIDI stuff now (after my couple of weeks digression on the linkable drum kit format). Promise I will have some MMC stuff for you in the next build. :)
Having said that, can you give me any more details on your machine, Carl? The best I've been able to find is: http://www.rolandus.com/products/ details.asp?CatID=12&SubCatID=48&ProdID=VS-1680&PageMode=19 Yet none of these documents talks about MMC (or MIDI at all) so far as I can tell. I'd like to get some more technical meat if I could, e.g., on what commands it listens for and sends, etc.
Well, my deck's user manual contains instructions for setting up a software sequencer (like Cakewalk or Logic) as slave to my deck, or vice versa, though that probably won't be much help since all the actual MIDI stuff happens somewhere that the user doesn't see. I also have the complete MIDI spec for my deck (which I slurped off the web from somewhere back when I was first looking at this stuff). I don't know how useful these things are, but MMC is supposed to be pretty standardized (-- anyway, I've put the PDF manual and spec on my web site: http://www.carlaz.com/music/VS1680_UserGuide.pdf http://www.carlaz.com/music/VS1680_MidiSpec.pdf
I just randomly found this page which discusses MMC and SysX commands with Cakewalk, though not in any great depth: http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Docs/MMCandSYSX.asp
Cheers, Carl
On 13 5 2004 at 6:10 am -0400, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote:
Well, my deck's user manual contains instructions for setting up a software sequencer (like Cakewalk or Logic) as slave to my deck, or vice versa, though that probably won't be much help since all the actual MIDI stuff happens somewhere that the user doesn't see. I also have the complete MIDI spec for my deck (which I slurped off the web from somewhere back when I was first looking at this stuff). I don't know how useful these things are, but MMC is supposed to be pretty standardized (-- anyway, I've put the PDF manual and spec on my web site:
Thanks for those manuals Carl, they were exactly what I was looking for.
And with that... *drumroll* a new beta build featuring some rudimentary MIDI machine control!
http://www.doggiebox.com/distribution/Doggiebox-1C4.zip
The release notes: ----- Some cosmetic and functional refinements have been made to the drum kit editor; in particular to the MIDI assignment controls, including a new pop-up menu for quickly assigning General MIDI drum presets.
Also, a couple of MIDI improvements have been made relating to song playback: • MMC LOCATE/PLAY and STOP events are now sent at when playing back in the playlist. When an MMC-compliant deck is connected, it should automatically seek to the correct location and begin playback in sync with Doggiebox. • NOTE OFF events are now scheduled at reasonable times following NOTE ON events. This is in accordance with MIDI guidelines, and should result in things like crash cymbals and hi-hats sounding more appropriately on compliant hardware. -----
Let me know how (or at least, if) this works with your deck, Carl.
The idea is that when you play back some sections or the song, your deck will be told to start playing, and also to stop when Doggiebox stops. In addition, a LOCATE command is sent before play, which should cause a seek to the proper spot automatically -- e.g. if you begin playing a section which occurs at 1:23 in the song, your deck should auto-seek to 1:23 as well.
-b
Ben Kennedy wrote:
• MMC LOCATE/PLAY and STOP events are now sent at when playing back in the playlist. When an MMC-compliant deck is connected, it should automatically seek to the correct location and begin playback in sync with Doggiebox. [...] Let me know how (or at least, if) this works with your deck, Carl.
Woo hoo! My only hold up is that I'm going to need to wait until I get paid in another couple of weeks to rush out and buy something like an M-Audio Midisport 1x1 (I've never had a need for MIDI cables before ;) But then, well, I had actually been holding off on starting to record any new songs in hopes of being able to do it with MMC support :) Being able to sync recording/playback will be, like, _huge_ :)
Cheers, Carl (who has also been slowly picking away at getting a "GB Percussion Kit" all entered and linked up).
Ben Kennedy wrote:
Let me know how (or at least, if) this works with your deck, Carl.
Right, I just got paid today (cue ZZ Top riff) and rushed out at lunch to buy a M-Audio Midisport 1x1 USB/MIDI interface so that I can try this out :) I'll have a go at it over the weekend!
Cheers, Carl
Ben Kennedy wrote:
Let me know how (or at least, if) this works with your deck, Carl.
OK, so far not terribly well :) I followed a sort of generic version of the instructions I have for connecting my MIDI-enabled deck to various software sequencers (all pretty much the same, really) by assuming DB would be trying to transmit MTC (MIDI Time Code) at 30 frames a second and also MMC.
But perhaps this was a bad assumption. Is DB transmitting MIDI Clock instead? Or perhaps I simply don't understand yet what's going on. I'm assuming synchronization (especially with that LOCATE function) is dependant on MMC or MIDI Clock. I scrounged around in the DB prefs and the release notes, but found I wasn't exactly sure what I should tell my deck to be looking out for.
I'll have to take another look myself, in case I set something wrong on my deck!
Cheers, Carl
Thanks for the update, Carl.
Um... Doggiebox is transmitting neither MTC nor MIDI Clock. :) I guess that's a bad thing. All it's doing at present is sending the LOCATE, PLAY and STOP commands at the beginning and end of playback.
What I assumed this would do is essentially, when pressing play, tell your deck "ok, I'm playing from 00:00, set yourself there and start playing too!". I expected this would behave as simply a cue command so that your deck could position itself where it wanted, and then begin synchronous playback (and/or record).
It did not occur to me at this point that any kind of real-time timing messages would be important from your perspective, since presumably your deck is recording real audio in realtime, as opposed to MIDI data. (e.g., if I was sending MTC at a rate which was actually too slow, what would happen, would your deck record slowly as though it were a tape recorder moving the tape at a slower speed? I doubt it.)
However, conceptually there is no good reason to omit the timing stuff from the MIDI stream, so I will look into this now.
-b
On 01 6 2004 at 5:13 am -0400, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote:
OK, so far not terribly well :) I followed a sort of generic version of the instructions I have for connecting my MIDI-enabled deck to various software sequencers (all pretty much the same, really) by assuming DB would be trying to transmit MTC (MIDI Time Code) at 30 frames a second and also MMC.
But perhaps this was a bad assumption. Is DB transmitting MIDI Clock instead? Or perhaps I simply don't understand yet what's going on. I'm assuming synchronization (especially with that LOCATE function) is dependant on MMC or MIDI Clock. I scrounged around in the DB prefs and the release notes, but found I wasn't exactly sure what I should tell my deck to be looking out for.
Ben Kennedy wrote:
Um... Doggiebox is transmitting neither MTC nor MIDI Clock. :) I guess that's a bad thing. All it's doing at present is sending the LOCATE, PLAY and STOP commands at the beginning and end of playback. What I assumed this would do is essentially, when pressing play, tell your deck "ok, I'm playing from 00:00, set yourself there and start playing too!". I expected this would behave as simply a cue command so that your deck could position itself where it wanted, and then begin synchronous playback (and/or record).
Well, hey, I would have expected that too :) Mercifully, I am not responsible for the MIDI standard :) It was only after I hooked everything up, crossed my fingers, and hit the button with the result of nada that I thought "hmmmmmm, where could something be missing?"
It did not occur to me at this point that any kind of real-time timing messages would be important from your perspective, since presumably your deck is recording real audio in realtime, as opposed to MIDI data. (e.g., if I was sending MTC at a rate which was actually too slow, what would happen, would your deck record slowly as though it were a tape recorder moving the tape at a slower speed? I doubt it.)
I read various things about errors rates and offsets -- I think MTC streams constantly (depending on the frame rate) and the receiving device does its best to cope with errors (which hopefully with modern gear and relatively non-complex connections won't be very much of a problem).
MIDI Clock, I think, is different, since it essentially transmits pulses that can vary according to tempo and time signature. What I've read seems to suggest using MTC if one has the option over MIDI Clock
However, conceptually there is no good reason to omit the timing stuff from the MIDI stream, so I will look into this now.
I think what happens is that the devices use MTC timing to coordinate when they are going to do what. While scrounging around trying to figure this stuff out, I ran across the page http://www.seriously-productions.freeserve.co.uk/dps12faq/f_midi.htm for the Akai DPS12, which has the following notes about MMC: ----- MIDI Machine Control is a protocol supported by the DPS12, which allows many of its transport functions to be controlled from a remote device. Many software sequencers support MMC, and in addition to start/stop/play/record and locate features, they can also record enable/disable specified tracks. MMC is nice to have. For example, the DPS12 is in MTC master mode, and sends MTC to the sequencer when you press PLAY on the DPS12. With MMC, when you also press PLAY on the software sequencer it sends an MMC play command to the DPS, which starts the DPS12 playing and outputting MTC which the sequencer detects, locks to, and starts playing. -----
Which makes a kind of sense. I also scrounged up a thread on the linux-audio-dev email list from some years back http://eca.cx/lad/2000/Dec/0350.html which seems to witter about some of the same things (though with more cunning technospeak that I can always interpret :)
Cheers, Carl, whose efforts to sort a "GB Percussion Kit" have been temporarily hijacked by his wife using the iBook continuously to finish her MPhil thesis. Education! Bah humbug ;)
Ah ha -- this page discussing some random Roland hardware http://www.rolandar.com/ar/03/ar200/p042.html tells me that "Use of MMC signals requires that the other device is capable of synchronization using MTC". So it looks like the timing stuff plays a role here, and its lack may indeed be the missing link in the behavior I saw.
Cheers, Carl
On 02 6 2004 at 5:26 am -0400, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote:
Ah ha -- this page discussing some random Roland hardware http://www.rolandar.com/ar/03/ar200/p042.html tells me that "Use of MMC signals requires that the other device is capable of synchronization using MTC". So it looks like the timing stuff plays a role here, and its lack may indeed be the missing link in the behavior I saw.
Thanks Carl,
I've taken up that challenge and I hereby present a new build which now streams MTC during playback!
http://www.doggiebox.com/distribution/Doggiebox-1C7.zip
But that's not all. At long last and by popular demand, exporting to a standard MIDI file (.mid) is now available, using the new "Export MIDI File..." menu command.
I haven't yet tried using the resultant MIDI files with any other apps yet myself, but they seem to play back with no problems in the Finder.
Further, a couple of other minor bugs are fixed too.
Let me know how this baby works.
-ben
Ben Kennedy wrote:
I've taken up that challenge and I hereby present a new build which now streams MTC during playback!
Wow, this _almost_ works! I'm not quite sure where the remaining hiccups are, so I'll describe my results.
I finally got a chance to sneak home at lunchtime while the iBook was free, plug-in, and give this a go. I checked the settings on my deck to ensure it was set up to slave to DB, and everything looked good. I ran audio out from the iBook to the inputs on my deck and, to test levels, pressed play on DB. Sound duly came over my headphones, and the deck had clearly received a command from DB since it started play-back :) Perhaps a toggle on the interface to temporarily disable MMC/MTC output would be good, so one can check levels and such without issuing commands to your slaved hardware. But anyway, I primed the deck to record, and hit Play on DB again ....
Behold! DB started audio and the deck started recording! Then, alas! After, I dunno, 10 seconds or so audio output pretty suddenly dropped out, though DB's interface continued to show the "cursor" advancing through the song and the deck kept playing.
I tried this all again several times. Sometimes DB started audio output cleanly and then stalled at about the same point. Sometimes DB coughed and spat to get audio going, and then carried only cleanly for a bit to stall at the same point as always. A couple of times DB didn't seem to want to start audio output at all, though in all cases it started the deck going and the cursor always marched on stoicly even after audio output had fizzled.
The way the audio output died was not _quite_ abrupt. It sounded to me as though the level slipped across the stereo in my headphones just as it was cutting out, though that could be an artifact of it always dying just at a point in the track where different things were happening on different sides of the stereo image.
Still, its clear that the basics _are_ working, and I'm not quite sure where the problem lies. The iBook did have several other things going on with it besides DB, so possibly it was simply running low on RAM. I didn't have time to shut everything else down and try again with DB as the sole running app with me as the sole log-in. However, the iBook is a new G4 from earlier this year and packed with as much RAM as Apple would build into it. Yeah, I should try this again. But I'm not sure why the audio output packed in when everything else seemed to keep going. DB was clearly still finding its way through the song.
But hey, whether there is some bug somewhere or its just a problem with RAM on my end, I bet this is solvable. I'm pretty stoked that its working at all! :)
But that's not all. At long last and by popular demand, exporting to a standard MIDI file (.mid) is now available, using the new "Export MIDI File..." menu command. I haven't yet tried using the resultant MIDI files with any other apps yet myself, but they seem to play back with no problems in the Finder.
I had a go at this, and it totally did not work for me :/ It output a MIDI file (almost instantly) that did not seem to play in QT (which is where it opened when I double-clicked it). Mind you, I was using a dbsong originally created in a pre-1.1 version of DB with the old interface and old file format that had more recently been converted and saved in the new format. Dunno if that would have had an effect. When I can, I'll try this again with a short dbsong file made up from scratch.
I don't know if I'll get a chance to play with this much more before next week at least, but I'll try!
Cheers, Carl
ps - I also quickly hooked up the Sansamp GT2 with the guitar and it seemed pretty cool. Haven't tried it with the bass, but I'm really tempted to get the Sansamp Bass Driver DI to pick up when I'm in the States next month. It would be cool to have everything preset for bass and guitar on seperate inputs so I could just plug in and go at just about any moment without fiddling around with cables and levels.
I've finally had a chance to play a bit more with this feature, and while I haven't had much more success, I have got a bit more data. My basic findings are much as before ...
Carl Edlund Anderson wrote:
Ben Kennedy wrote:
I've taken up that challenge and I hereby present a new build which now streams MTC during playback!
Wow, this _almost_ works! I'm not quite sure where the remaining hiccups are, so I'll describe my results. But anyway, I primed the deck to record, and hit Play on DB again .... Behold! DB started audio and the deck started recording! Then, alas! After, I dunno, 10 seconds or so audio output pretty suddenly dropped out, though DB's interface continued to show the "cursor" advancing through the song and the deck kept playing.
I've now tried this with a lot more dbsong files. Behavior seems semi-consistent for a given dbsong. In general, it seems that smaller dbsong files using smaller dbkits work more happily. At least one or two short, loop-type dbsongs with a small kits (like the Djembe kit/song combo) seemed to get MMC-triggered recording going and keep it going without further trouble. Bigger kit/song combos seemed to in general be able to play up to a point, usually 6-20 seconds and then lose audio output. They generally seemed to lose audio output at the same point each time, and it seemed to me that usually they lost audio at some point in the dbsong where new or different samples were being called on. Sometimes pressing play on DB wouldn't trigger the deck, or sometimes it would trigger the deck and there would be no audio output, but in general if you didn't get the record going on one attempt, going back and triggering it again would work. But if the song was determined to die when the first crash cymbal hit, then die there it would.
So, I'm not sure where the hiccup is. Perhaps a memory issue? Yet though the problem manifested more consistently with bigger kits/songs, it would sometimes fall over with much smaller kits/songs too. So it could just be some "wires" getting crossed, or some combo of memory trouble and something else. I was careful to make sure that there was only one user logged in on the iBook, and only DB running -- and though it's possible to have a faster CPU and more RAM than I've got, there should I would think be plenty of headroom. If I can, I'll try again with some of those CPU/RAM meter utilities running to see what's up there ....
And I'll plead with Ben to take a look at this when he can, because this feature is _so_ close to working, and MMC control would be so amazingly cool :)
Cheers, Carl
ps - I also quickly hooked up the Sansamp GT2 with the guitar and it seemed pretty cool. Haven't tried it with the bass [...]
pps - I swapped out my old DOD "Bass Grunge" pedal for the GT2 on the bass set-up I use live, and suddenly my bass sounds like _God_. I just set all the amp knobs to something fairly neutral and used the GT2's "SVT Bass" setting, but with the Mod switch on "Hi Gain" and the "Drive" knob all the way up. That's got a lot of crunch, though without losing the definition, and it retains all the bottom end (where the DOD pedal was a bit thin-sounding). Excellent. I'm psyched to get some more DB drum parts laid down and play lots of loud guitar'n'bass (well, loud in the headphones anyway :)
Ben Kennedy wrote:
But that's not all. At long last and by popular demand, exporting to a standard MIDI file (.mid) is now available, using the new "Export MIDI File..." menu command.
I finally figured out why this didn't work for me: it's because I am a f***ing idiot :) I never mapped MIDI notes to given drum samples in the kit I was using. I started doing this (taking the values from Ben's Kit) and I expect it will work better next time :)
For others messing with this, here's a link to a General Midi chart of drum sounds: http://www.borg.com/~jglatt/tutr/gm.htm#Keys
Cheers, Carl
ps - still haven't had a chance to play more with MMC, but hope to after I get back from visiting family during the next few weeks!
On 28 6 2004 at 7:16 am -0400, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote:
For others messing with this, here's a link to a General Midi chart of drum sounds: http://www.borg.com/~jglatt/tutr/gm.htm#Keys
Note that there is a pop-up menu in the drum kit editor now with all of these labeled, so you can assign these presets easily without having to look up numbers tediously.
-ben
Ben Kennedy wrote:
On 28 6 2004 at 7:16 am -0400, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote:
For others messing with this, here's a link to a General Midi chart of drum sounds: http://www.borg.com/~jglatt/tutr/gm.htm#Keys
Note that there is a pop-up menu in the drum kit editor now with all of these labeled, so you can assign these presets easily without having to look up numbers tediously.
D'oh! I had totally failed to notice that in the build I had been messing with. Now that I've started tacking together pieces of an ns_kit 7 recipe, I'll be sure to keep an eye out for the pop-up!
Cheers, Carl
On 11 May 2004, at 21:47, Ben Kennedy wrote:
The included "GB Rock Drums.dbkit" is an initial (incomplete) effort at creating a dbkit for the Rock Drums kit supplied with Apple's GarageBand, using icons from the Reverend Rat's set. If you have GarageBand installed on your system, please attempt using this kit and report any problems you have making it work. If anyone would like to pick up the ball and complete this kit, I would encourage it -- please mention so on the mailing list so we can avoid duplication of effort. I would like to eventually have all of the GarageBand kits available for when Doggiebox 1.2 is ready for release. Same with ns_kit 7, too!
So have you (or anyone else) got a general handle on the way Apple has organized their samples? It seems to me like file names ending in 01 seem to be the highest velocity, while file names ending in 04 seem to be the lowest (actually, I sometimes have difficulty being sure, though that may be the limitations of my iBook's built-in speakers, since I haven't had a chance to plug anything in to listen more closely.
I think Apple's sample are missing a lot of sounds I'd like in a Latin kit, for example (3 congas, I think, but just regular hits I think, no mutes or slaps or suchlike). Still, I thought I might try playing with this to see how I got on with it ....
Does anyone know of any nice online resource that has mapped out all Apple's GarageBand samples, the which and the what?
Cheers, Carl
-- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/
On 11 May 2004, at 21:47, Ben Kennedy wrote:
In addition to deferred loading, the new kit format now also facilitates linking to external sound files as opposed to saving them within the drum kit file. This way, it is now possible to create kits based on audio repositories from other sources (such as GarageBand and ns_kit) and exchange them with others without having to duplicate and transport all of the audio data.
Oh, and perhaps by default, my GarageBand library samples don't have a file name extension, and I can't seem to convince DB to link to them (they're greyed out when I try to Load). Am simply doing the wrong thing in DB, or should I do something like copy the appropriate bits of GB library samples somewhere else and rename them with file extensions?
Cheers, Carl
-- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/
On 12 5 2004 at 4:09 pm -0400, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote:
Oh, and perhaps by default, my GarageBand library samples don't have a file name extension, and I can't seem to convince DB to link to them (they're greyed out when I try to Load). Am simply doing the wrong thing in DB, or should I do something like copy the appropriate bits of GB library samples somewhere else and rename them with file extensions?
Hmmm... I see what you mean. It seems this is only the case with the Percussion Kit, though. The other half dozen kits all appear to use .aif file extensions. I hadn't played with the Percussion Kit yet so I didn't reailse the issue there.
What I would suggest is to use some tool to add type/creator metadata to the files -- specifically, a file type of 'AIFF' -- so that Doggiebox will properly see them as aiff files. Renaming them is no good because the linking mechanism needs them to have the same names in order to work transparently. Changing the file type code will work, however, because once Doggiebox sees them it will link them in your kit by filename.
-ben
Ben Kennedy wrote:
Hmmm... I see what you mean. It seems this is only the case with the Percussion Kit, though. The other half dozen kits all appear to use .aif file extensions. I hadn't played with the Percussion Kit yet so I didn't reailse the issue there.
Yeah, and I hadn't played with anything _except_ the percussion kit yet, so I hadn't realized the Rock Kit had handy file extensions ;) I suppose this is a reminder also that we'd have to keep an eye on possible future upgrades/changes to the way GB organizes things ....
What I would suggest is to use some tool to add type/creator metadata to the files -- specifically, a file type of 'AIFF' -- so that Doggiebox will properly see them as aiff files. Renaming them is no good because the linking mechanism needs them to have the same names in order to work transparently. Changing the file type code will work, however, because once Doggiebox sees them it will link them in your kit by filename.
Good idea -- I'll give FileInfo 1.3 a spin http://www.panix.com/~shopsinm/
Cheers, Carl
On 13 5 2004 at 8:03 am -0400, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote:
Yeah, and I hadn't played with anything _except_ the percussion kit yet, so I hadn't realized the Rock Kit had handy file extensions ;) I suppose this is a reminder also that we'd have to keep an eye on possible future upgrades/changes to the way GB organizes things ....
Ya, this is true.
I wonder how GB tracks things in its project files (I haven't really looked at it much yet). Actually, it would be most useful to know something about the .exs files (in the "Sampler Instruments" folder beside "Sampler Files") since presumably that's how it maps the instrument names to their sounds.
From what I gather, exs is a format used by Logic Audio and stuff, but some googling around has revealed no further details insofar as file format or API for parsing.
-ben
Ben Kennedy wrote:
Actually, it would be most useful to know something about the .exs files (in the "Sampler Instruments" folder beside "Sampler Files") since presumably that's how it maps the instrument names to their sounds. From what I gather, exs is a format used by Logic Audio and stuff, but some googling around has revealed no further details insofar as file format or API for parsing.
I also tried to find something (free) that would open .exs files in OS-x, hoping I could figure out what some of the samples are -- but no luck, so far.
I have been picking away at assembling a GB Percussion Kit (which GB doesn't seem to use as a discrete unit, but the user interface to their Rock, Dance, etc. kits seem to map into GB's Percussion Kit to add extra sounds (e.g. if you've loaded the Dance Kit or the Techno Kit in GB, both will get you the same Vibraslap sample that's sitting in the Percussion Kit folder). Still, if DB gets the ability to load multiple kits in the future, one would just load one's preferred standard drum dbkit set and then could load something like the GB Percussion Kit dbkit as well.
But, yes, though I'm having a pretty smooth time with the kit interface (I sometimes wish I could jump/select fields more easily with the tab key), my main difficulty is figuring out what the hell Apple's Percussion Kit samples are samples _of_ :) Many are obvious, but not all. I think the things identified with the string GOGN must be agogo bells, though the things identified as BARRE still mystify me (some kind of frame drum?).
The GB Percussion Kit does indeed only seem to have pretty basic hits -- nothing like the range of sounds available on the Reverend Rat's/Carl's Djembe kit -- but hey, it's a start.
Hell of a lot easier to program DB than GB :)
Cheers, Carl
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Ben Kennedy -
Carl Edlund Anderson