- Doggiebox - lists.zygoat.ca

Reconfiguring the list server
by Ben Kennedy 29 Jul '03

29 Jul '03

All, I am in process of migrating the list server software from ezmlm (www.ezmlm.org) to Mailman (www.list.org) This might result in some interruption of service to the Doggiebox mailing lists, hopefully only briefly. I'll post again if and when the transition is complete. :) In the mean time you receive any error messages or such while attempting to post to the list, please forward them to me (ben(a)zygoat.ca) and I'll try to sort it out. -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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MacWorld article online
by Ben Kennedy 25 Jul '03

25 Jul '03

For those of yall who don't subscribe to MacWorld mag, the August issue is now on their web site along with the text of the Mac Gems column in which Doggiebox was lauded: <http://www.macworld.com/2003/08/reviews/macgems/> Yay! :) -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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Version 1.0.4 beta finally
by Ben Kennedy 23 Jul '03

23 Jul '03

Hi all, It's been too long since there has been any news on the Doggiebox front... so I am finally pleased today to post a new beta build. This collects some minor improvements I began working on several weeks ago (before I got sidetracked with lots of summer musical events and other projects), and the like. What's new: - Fixed bug where some Undo functions would not work on a newly created song file. - Fixed bug where importing or exporting sounds would fail when the filename contained non-standard characters. - Added collapse-to-mono toggle button. (NOTE: does not yet save in song file) - Improved responsiveness of user interface and position indicator after stopping playback. - Improved alert messages (such as 'Cannot find "(null)"') shown when a drum kit is missing or unavailable. Grab it at <http://www.doggiebox.com/distribution/Doggiebox-1A16.sit> -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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Help the stupid... please.
by dpwalsh6＠cox.net 22 Jul '03

22 Jul '03

Hi, though i've done little programming in doggiebox i am excited by its potential. i've seen a few emails asking for some stuff that when implemented would really make this already unique program sing. so i thought i'd toss my hat into the ring and ask about the keboard mapping feature mentioned in the upcomming improvements. for those of us with little actual drum programming experience being able to assign a kit to the keyboard of my laptop and tap in beats like a regular drum machine would be great. also it would help those of us without step writing experience to see what these tapped in beats looked like. it's very easy to assume that once you've done this for a while the patterns would start to sink in and the tapping would eventually lead to real programming. damn, it would almost end up being a teaching tool! well, that's just my 2 cents. thanks for listening and all the great suggestions, resources and tips so far. later, dan walsh ============================================================

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Re: [doggiebox] multiple kits in a song?
by Carl Edlund Anderson 18 Jul '03

18 Jul '03

At 21:00 17/07/2003, Michael Carlyle wrote: >I think that, in my minds eye, I picture a main rythym, and two or three >separate percussion sections with totally different sounds, merging >together in one song file. >I understand where you're coming from, though. I only wanted to offer a >workaround that might be worth looking at while we wait for the next >release. I think you're looking at a compromise for now. Yeah, though I thought I would kick the multi-kit loading idea out into the list-forum. It will take me some time to figure out how to best construct even a single conga/timbale based kit and then figure out how to make the rhythms work, so I've got plenty keep me occupied while Ben keeps developing Doggiebox in one direction or another :) Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson mailto:cea@carlaz.com http://www.carlaz.com/

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Re: [doggiebox] multiple kits in a song?
by Carl Edlund Anderson 17 Jul '03

17 Jul '03

On jueves, juli 17, 2003, at 17:14 Europe/London, Michael Carlyle wrote: > Will sounds from different kits mute each other out when played in the > same song? I can't remember. I would think that two snare hits from the same sample on different kits should either combine to produce an at least louder sound OR, with the inclusion of a "humanization" feature, they wouldn't occur at quite the same time and velocity, making it sound much like two different people had just tried to hit two identical snare drums at the same time (presumably giving you the sound of a slight chorus effect thanks to the slight discrepancy in timing and velocity). And hey: maybe your two kits have different snares :) > I would find that editing patterns containing 12 to 24 instruments > could be quite daunting. Granted, but if I'm trying to imitate the effect of 2 or 3 drummers/kits playing together, I thought it would be easier to do within one song file rather than assemble the different parts in different song files (after all, if my 2 or 3 drummers were real, they'd be able to hear each other when playing, so I want to hear them together when composing :) And keeping the "section" grouped into their own "kits" would help impose some measure of order. One could, say, "collapse" individual kits if one weren't working on them at the moment, so as not to be distracted. And perhaps working from the concept of various master patterns in ye olde pattern library (once assembled), one could actually rough out some multiple drummer/kit songs without _too_ much pain .... I find the grouping style of kit>instrument fairly handy, since it helps do things like remind me that a naturalistic effect shouldn't have a drummer with 3 hands :) and it does save on screen real estate (which will be pressured by adding additional kits anyway) but I've become enamored of the idea of having multiple virtual doggies pounding away on multiple virtual kits within a single song file :) Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson mailto:carl@carlaz.com http://www. carlaz.com/

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Percussion section
by Frank Rubino 17 Jul '03

17 Jul '03

> For I guess a few months now I've been musing over how to put together a > Doggiebox drum kit (or kits) to model a Latin-style percussion > section. I think this is a cool idea. I am not a drummer and so don't really find the five-category model that natural. In fact "A huge grid providing slots for dozens of instruments" would probably much more natural to me ;-) So I'm all for a more flexible model which could provide for this. My 2 cents Frank Rubino

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Re: song file
by Ben Kennedy 15 Jul '03

15 Jul '03

On 14 7 2003 at 6:21 pm -0400, James Babb wrote: >It would be cool if there was a way to exchange song files. Here's a >good one. Sweet, thanks James. I've posted it to the library page! -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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Re: [doggiebox] Macworld review
by Patrick O'Donoghue 11 Jul '03

11 Jul '03

Yeah, congratulations, Ben!! I think it's not only a remarkable program, but, your hands-on approach and willingness to listen to user's feedback is also pretty remarkable! Thanks! -Patrick >From: "Ben Kennedy" <ben(a)zygoat.ca> >To: "Doggiebox List(s)" <doggiebox(a)lists.zygoat.ca> >Subject: Re: [doggiebox] Macworld review >Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:39:43 -0400 > >On 09 7 2003 at 5:28 pm -0400, mosshill wrote: > > >Congraduations to Ben for a good review in Macworld (August 2003) in > >Mac Gems. > >I just got my copy in the mail yesterday and was happily surprised to >find that too. Thanks! :) > >-ben > >-- >Ben Kennedy, chief magician >zygoat creative technical services >613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 >http://www.zygoat.ca > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > Zygoat Doggiebox discussion list - http://www.doggiebox.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: doggiebox-unsubscribe(a)lists.zygoat.ca > For additional commands, e-mail: doggiebox-help(a)lists.zygoat.ca > _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

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Macworld review
by mosshill 10 Jul '03

10 Jul '03

Congraduations to Ben for a good review in Macworld (August 2003) in Mac Gems. Jack Moss

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Re: Tempo, etc.
by Ben Kennedy 03 Jul '03

03 Jul '03

On 30 6 2003 at 11:47 am -0400, Michael Carlyle wrote: >Feature suggestion: > >I played with Leaf Drums a little bit >(www.leafdigital.com) and noticed a neat export option. He >allows you to "export drums individually" for use in >multitracking software. This would be fantastic, since I >could then mix and pan each sound and gain much more >control. I haven't previously heard of Leaf Drums but I'll checkerout. Exporting distinct channels, and/or muting or soloing certain drums in the mix, will be relatively easy to implement and it's a great idea. Thanks for bringing that up! (BTW Mike, your first tempo message DID make it through but since it was mis-addressed, it ended up filed away in an obscure location in my mailer. :) -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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Tempo problem
by Mike Carlyle 03 Jul '03

03 Jul '03

To emphasize the importance of doing a "save as" backup of your work, and also to point out a potential bug, I offer the following tale: I'm currently doing some drum program for a guy in VA. I'm working from CD's he mailed me, and I'm using Doggiebox to fill in drums on audio tracks that came off the CD's . I'm using Cubase to put things together and check my programming. The song I'm working on is just over three minutes long, and I had about three or four hours into the programming. For no reason at all, I played with the "Master Tempo" slider. I set it back to 100% then did a save. When I exported a wav file to check the patterns in Cubase, I noticed an immediate problem with Tempo. I went back to DB, and saw that the slider still read 100%. There is no chance that I exported while the slider said anything other than 100%. I was able to open a backup song file, then copy the changed patterns from my (now bad) song file into it. Problem solved. I think there may be something wrong with the way the slider works. I'd advise "hands off" unless you know what you may end up with. Do a backup.

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Can the drawer be larger (longer)?
by Michael Carlyle 03 Jul '03

03 Jul '03

I don't remember this specifically being discussed before, so I'll throw it out here. I have a kit that forces scroll bars into play in the kit drawer window. Is it possible that this window could be made so that it could be dragged larger from top to bottom? Another thought... Could things be set up so that we had a choice of the drawer extending from either the side, as it does now, or the bottom, like Watson does it?

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Doggiebox and other instruments
by Michael Garrett 28 May '03

28 May '03

Warning: I've just joined this mailing list and I'm sure this question has been asked before... How are other people recording bass/guitar/vocals when they are using Doggiebox? The example mp3 songs on the web site are great. I'm curious about wether the drums were streamed out of the Mac to a digital four track, or wether it's possible to record guitar directly to the Mac while Doggiebox plays in the background, or wether the best bet is to save the drum track out as an audio file and then use a multitrack program .I have a copy of Cubase I can upgrade for OS X although I don't really like using it, it's too much like work considering I work all day on my Mac. The main thing I like about Doggiebox is that it seems to be fun to use. So if I could keep everything else fun (ie. recording the other instruments) then I'd be cookin'... Cheers Michael -- --- http://homepage.mac.com/michael_garrett/

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Fwd: Re: problem
by Ben Kennedy 26 May '03

26 May '03

Matt Roberts wrote: >when I go to open a new song and choose the default drum kit, I have to >go back to song options and choose the drum kit again. .... >It chooses the new kit in the info box, but when I start working on the >song it is the default kit. Then I go into the song options box again, >rechoose the drumkit, and go back to the song and the one I chose is >there. I am unable to reproduce this problem. Can anybody else confirm similar behaviour? (I did, however, discover that Undo doesn't work on new songs until they are saved and reopened... now fixed for the next build) -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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Metronome
by Ryk Groetchen 26 May '03

26 May '03

Hi Ben, I am surprised at the lack of a good reliable Metronome for OS X. Here is a list of what's available on Versiontracker: http://www.versiontracker.com/mp/ new_search.m?productDB=mac&mode=Quick&OS_Filter=MacOSX&search=metronome& x=0&y=0 I have tried emailing the developers, and it seems that these apps are no longer in development. Any chance you'd be interested in putting one together with what you've learned from Doggiebox? Of the apps listed on VT, MetroGnome seems the most reliable/best features, but am not able to get a response from the developer about updates/bug fixes/new features. You've been so approachable, I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask. Anyone else interested please chime in! Regards, Ryk A. Groetchen windrag(a)earthlink.net

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Looking for a killer metal kit
by Hermiteer 26 May '03

26 May '03

If someone has or knows of someone with a killer double bass drum kit and would be willing to make a doggiebox kit out of it, I'd be greatly appreciative. Basically I would like to see: Double bass Hi-hat 4 toms 1 floor tom 2 rides 2 crashes 1 Chinaman (is it still called that?) I waiting for my CD of drum samples to show up, but I'm not sure how the legality of that would work. Is it different than someone recording the sound their drum makes and giving it to you? Cheers, Christoph PS. Oh and if possible, throw in a cowbell for good measure :)

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time signatures
by Mike Carlyle 25 May '03

25 May '03

I've drum-programmed some fairly intricate things over the past 10 or so years, but I still lack some musical or technical knowledge. Even though I can tap out a beat, or even play it on a drum kit, I rarely know what time signature (or combination of signatures) I'm playing, unless it's 3/4 or 4/4. This makes it challenging when I sit down with Doggiebox. I usually do a couple of false starts, changing the combination of tempo/time sig/note value. What's the most reliable way for me to figure out what time signature to start programming a beat with? Are there shareware apps that can help?

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Marching Percussion Sounds
by DefRider71＠aol.com 23 May '03

23 May '03

I'd love to have some marching percussion sounds (marching snares, basses, tenors, cymbals (different types of crashes, sizzles, etc.). Tap Space Productions has a good one. I'm sure you extract the sounds from their sample MP3... -- Greg Fiumara DefRider71(a)aol.com

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Fwd: Version 1.0.3 now available
by Ben Kennedy 23 May '03

23 May '03

---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Subject: [doggiebox-announce] Version 1.0.3 now available Date Sent: Friday, 23 May 2003 4:27 pm From: Ben Kennedy <ben(a)zygoat.ca> To: doggiebox-announce(a)lists.zygoat.ca Greetings all, Here's what's new in Doggiebox version 1.0.3, posted today: - Added long-awaited Undo support for various song editing operations. - Added new Erase functionality: hold the Option key while mousing over the pattern editor, and click (or drag) to immediately remove any drums beneath the cursor. - File references (saved in preferences and song files) are now stored using alias records instead of absolute paths. As a result, Doggiebox should be less prone to lose track of drum kits that have been moved or renamed. (Song file format has been updated.) Download it now at <http://www.doggiebox.com/distribution/Doggiebox.sit> In addition to the new version, we are pleased to announce that the beginnings of a drum kit & sound file library is now online. Download and try out some other drum kits to change the sound of your tunes! <http:// www.doggiebox.com/library/> Additionally, the online FAQ has been updated with a few entries, and the entire Doggiebox documentation is now online as well. Have fun, -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: doggiebox-announce-unsubscribe(a)lists.zygoat.ca For additional commands, e-mail: doggiebox-announce-help(a)lists.zygoat.ca ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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Re: [doggiebox] Doggiebox and other instruments
by Patrick O'Donoghue 23 May '03

23 May '03

One thing I try to do is this....I always add the 1-2-3-4 (I use the rim-shot or side-shot) at the beginning of the Doggiebox drum patten WHEN I'M BUILDING IT in Doggiebox, it then allows me to count-off the exact same way whenever I swap out drum tracks on a particular song. (I'm careful not to duplicate that opening bar -- i.e., the 1-2-3-4 count-off -- when cutting and pasting for an extended drum loop.) After I have a basic (i.e., repetitive) drum pattern imported into Pro Tools, I'll record the guitars, vocals, etc. Then, after the basic song structure is in place, I'll go back to the original Doggiebox file (which still has the 1-2-3-4 count-off intro), make changes to the body of the file adding fills, crashes, etc.. at points where the song needs it, then import that newly revised drum track into Pro Tools. (If you do it on a new track, and leave the original drum track in place, you can mute all other tracks and listen to see if the two drum tracks are in sync. They should be.) Then I delete the first repetitive drum track, and also delete the 1-2-3-4 count-off prior to mixing out to the Master Mix. >From: Carl Edlund Anderson <cea(a)carlaz.com> >To: Doggiebox <doggiebox(a)lists.zygoat.ca> >Subject: Re: [doggiebox] Doggiebox and other instruments >Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 10:02:31 +0100 > >At 18:31 22/05/2003, Hermiteer wrote: >> > I have a (now rather old) Roland VS-1680 and Doggiebox is my drummer >> > :) For my set-up, the best technique _seems_ to be to assemble a basic >> > percussion track in Doggiebox, export it as an AIFF, playback the AIFF >>and >> > record it on the 1680, then record guitars, etc. on top of that. The >>trick >> > is that I often want to change the details of the percussion track as I >> > work on the song (add fill here, extra cymbal there), but it's >>difficult to >> > synchronize the start of play to rerecord the drum track directly (thus >>my >> > MIDI feature requests some weeks back :) It works out (at present) a >> > little easier to simply slap a whole new AIFF over the original >>percussion >> > track on the 1680 to get it on the machine and roughly in place, and >>then >> > "nudge" the whole thing into synchronization with the other >> > instruments. It's still a little tedious, but not impossible. >> >>I do basically the same thing, except that I've found it invaluable to add >>a >>measure of "count off" cymbal hits before the drum track starts. This >>ensures that the other tracks start at the right time and allows you to >>swap >>out the drum track with no ill effects on the timing of the other tracks. > >Well, I generally add "count off" hits at the beginning anyway, just so I >can tell when to start playing the other instruments when overdubbing :) >But I kind of see what you mean, except that if I were swapping out the >whole drum track, I wouldn't be able to hear the count off if it were part >of the rest of the drum track that was being swapped out (assuming I read >what you're doing right). In any case, the trick for me is to always get >the drum track starting at Time N, where N is however many units of time >measurement into recording process the music is supposed to start. > >I suppose, though, if I just think of the the Play button itself as just >another instrument, if I recorded a separate count-off on a separate track >from the "real percussion tracks", I could use that as my aural cue for >1-2-3-4-Go, pressing play on "Go" :) That ought to result in a new >percussion track that is _pretty_ closing in timing to the one that's being >replaced (and I could always then shift the resulting new drum track a few >units of time one way or another from the VS-1680's interface). Might be >able to skip the AIFF step that way .... Kind of obvious, when I think >about it :) > >But that's why I asked some while ago about adding MIDI features in >Doggiebox: so that I could essentially slave it to the MIDI time clock on >the VS-1680, meaning that, at the appropriate moment, the 1680 would tell >Doggiebox "Go!" and go Doggiebox would, the same time, everytime. > >Cheers, >Carl > > >-- >Carl Edlund Anderson >mailto:cea@carlaz.com >http://www.carlaz.com/ > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > Zygoat Doggiebox discussion list - http://www.doggiebox.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: doggiebox-unsubscribe(a)lists.zygoat.ca > For additional commands, e-mail: doggiebox-help(a)lists.zygoat.ca > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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Another drum kit added
by Ben Kennedy 23 May '03

23 May '03

Hey all, Pleased to say that another drum kit is now up in the library; new user Ian Cook sent it in today; here's how he described it: >I've put together a drum kit using samples from our drummer >They are untreated, I'm happy with most of the sounds, getting the >open-closed hihats seem a bit tricky though >Anyway thought you might like to add it to your online library enjoy! (BTW, if there are any late problems with the 1A14 build, let me know within the next few hours -- will plan on posting 1.0.3 final by the end of the day.) -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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Re: [doggiebox] Doggiebox and other instruments
by Michael Carlyle 22 May '03

22 May '03

On Thu, 22 May 2003 12:40:43 -0400 "Patrick O'Donoghue" <pdiddyod(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >OK, that makes sense. >So, how do you connect the 424 to your digital world? >That is, what kind of cables do you use, and which >outputs/inputs on the 424 side and on the digital >side....? (I'm still on the new side of this, so please >feel free to be very literal and basic!) I use a rather inexpensive cable that has a 1/8" stereo mini plug at one end, and a pair of RCA plugs at the other end. At the RCA end of the cable, I use an adapter that converts them into a TRS plug (Tip Ring Sleeve- a kind of 1/4" stereo jack). This TRS plug goes into the input for tracks 5/6 on the 424. This accepts TRS, and the level control here is a single knob that operates on both tracks. I'm pretty sure that there is a TRS to stereo mini plug cable available somewhere, but I had all these things laying around and just decided to hook up this way one day. I get a level at the 424 first, using it's LED meters. Once all looks good, I'll adjust the levels at the Mac if needed. The OSX sound panel is pretty good in that it lets you adjust to a numeric value in db's that can let you hit the proper level each time. I've got the number written down somwhere. > >>From: "Michael Carlyle" <mcarlyle(a)charter.net> >>To: "Patrick O'Donoghue" <pdiddyod(a)hotmail.com>, >>doggiebox(a)lists.zygoat.ca >>Subject: Re: [doggiebox] Doggiebox and other instruments >>Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 12:35:47 -0400 >> >>On Thu, 22 May 2003 10:15:55 -0400 >> "Patrick O'Donoghue" <pdiddyod(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >>>Your stuff sounds good. >> >>Thanks. >>> >>>I want to ask you, what is the advantage of routing >>>through the 424? >>>I have a 424 I'd like to make use of, but I wasn't sure >>>how I'd best take advantage ofit before sending the >>>signal into my G4.... >> >>Well, for me it's like an interface between the digital >>and analog worlds. The 424 has a slew of 1/4" inputs, >>plus the 1/4" phone jack that I use for monitoring. With >>Cubase, I find it best to monitor in the analog domain, >>meaning I don't bother listening to the recorded material >>"as it's being recorded". I monitor the already recorded >>tracks on playback, routed through the 424, and the live >>material through the 424 directly. >> >>Monitoring during tracking using Cubase alone results in >>latency that is a multiple of your disk cache. This tip >>is in the manual, and I found it to be a good one. > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > <TEXTAREA NAME="Signature" ROWS="4" COLS="60"><TEXTAREA NAME="Signature" ROWS="4" COLS="60"><TEXTAREA NAME="Signature" ROWS="4" COLS="60">

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Re: [doggiebox] Doggiebox and other instruments
by Carl Freire 22 May '03

22 May '03

At 11:25 AM -0500 5/22/03, Count Rockula wrote: > I'm a Pro Tools user, and I asked the Pro Tools user forum about Doggie Box. > I've not yet even tried to mess with it. But plan to. Anyway, there were few > who knew about it, and a couple that did passed it off as very poor program > that can't get the job done in a professional manner. I haven't seen this > for myself. I don't know what their standards are though. It all sounds > WONDERFUL in concept. Oh, don't get me wrong, it's a great deal--a pretty powerful digital 8-track program for FREE. I guess lots of professional audio folk swear by the commercial version these days, though whether that is a good thing or bad thing is a subject to much debate (analog vs. digital, keep it plain vs. endless mixdown tweaking, etc.). My complaint--the only one so far, anyway--is that when I want to use it, I have to first go through The Procedure. To get started with my Fostex, I plug my microphone in and turn the power on. To use ProTools, I have to open the Memory panel and change all the settings. Then I have to wait while the system reboots, not forgetting that I also have to use a special startup set of extensions and control panels. Then, once the system is up, I have to tinker with the Sound panel when it comes on to readjust the default audio input levels. Then I can boot ProTools. And then when I'm done, I have to undo things so I can use my computer again for the other things in life. I know it's not a lot to do from a certain perspective, but when compared to "turn power on," it's a pain in the butt. Of course, I know also that once you've made the mental adjustment to The Procedure, it no longer seems to be such a pain. But I'm not there yet. FWIW. Carl -- ********** Carl Freire Oakland, California cfreire(a)ix.netcom.com cfreire(a)uclink4.berkeley.edu

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Midi Import
by Mikhael 22 May '03

22 May '03

I know this question has probably already been asked, but does Doggiebox support Midi Import of drum tracks? Thanks, Mike

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