Doggiebox November 2003

doggiebox@lists.zygoat.ca

11 participants
17 discussions

My first DoggieBox Effort
by Charlie Needle 11 Dec '03

11 Dec '03

I've just posted my first song created with DoggieBox It's here http://members.iinet.net.au/~puffin/mp3.html if any one wants to have a listen - send any criticisms, I'm VERY thick skinned Cheers Charlie PS Ben - Thanks for adding the hand claps to the new build - unfortunately, I already had this song half done when it arrived and as I was keen to keep my momentum going i didn't add the new kit. Next song I make will have hand claps galore. Thanks again. It's so cool to be able to request something and actually have it happen...

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some of my doggiebox songs
by Bret Van Horn 11 Dec '03

11 Dec '03

Hey All- Apologies if this comes to the list twice -- I kept trying to send it from the wrong account. D'oh! I've been lurking a bit here, as I've not had a chance to use Doggiebox (or even update it!) for about 5 months now. Anyhow, I finally posted some songs I recorded with Doggiebox about 6 months ago. They are by no means complete (no vocals, rough mixes, etc.), but might serve as an example. All songs were done in ProTools and used Doggiebox (except for one) with Ben's kit for the drum tracks. The URL below has painfully detailed explanations and descriptions of the songs and reasons for their creation, with links to the MP3s themselves: http://bret.workshed.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=music.bands&band_id=13 Thanks for creating such a great product, by the way, Ben. -Bret -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- workshed design http://www.workshed.com

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Some of my tunes...
by Ben Kennedy 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

Hey all, For anyone interested in how I've been using Doggiebox myself lately, I've finally thrown together a small collection of some of my recent projects: <http://www.myselfmusic.com/003/> My plan is eventually to re-record real drums for these songs, but Doggiebox does a hell of a stand-in job for the demos don't you say? :) There are MP3s and dbsong files for anyone interested. In Doggiebox news, I plan to release 1.0.5 by the end of the weekend (I just need to record a few more sounds to bolster the drum kit, including those hand claps I promised). And... I hope to have an early build of the next generation (1.1) for all to play with by sometime this coming week. I'm building in better section and structure editing support now, but it's necessitating a lot of re-plumbing under the hood. -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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Re: [Doggiebox] My first DoggieBox Effort
by Charlie Needle 27 Nov '03

27 Nov '03

Mike Thanks for that, it was just the sort of thing I was after I hear what you mean about the cymbal crashes - Pre DoggieBox days I used a horrible old drum machine. Getting a single bar set up took considerable effort and then keeping track of everything was a job in itself - adding extra fills were just too hard. Using DB makes it so easy to add the crashes etc - I guess I went over board - new toy sort of thing.... I also mixed the drums a lot further out front - it being a DB forum. I dropped the bass out of the mix, I couldn't get it to sound anywhere near good, just a muddy background blob. I need to spend more time on this. I notice what you mean about the vocals being buried. It seems to be a common error with home studio muso's. I notice that Ben's song Reach You has vocals buried a bit like mine - I'm thinking it's because we're not great vocalists (me worse than most) and we tend to drop them back a bit and also add a lot of reverb. We're in good company though, John Lennon would always do this as well, but usually had a George Martin or someone to amend the mix. Thanks again - I'm starting my next song this weekend.. Cheers Charlie On Thursday, November 27, 2003, at 05:59 AM, Mike Carlyle wrote: > Charlie- > > This sounds like it could be a pretty good song. > > The almost constant crash cymbals are a bit distracting. I don't know > a drummer that actually plays like that. The snare fills are cool. Is > there a bass in the mix? I can't really hear it. The organ buries the > vocals a bit. > > Please take this as constructive criticism. Keep trackin'. > > > On Wednesday, November 26, 2003, at 08:09 AM, Charlie Needle wrote: > >> I've just posted my first song created with DoggieBox >> >> It's here http://members.iinet.net.au/~puffin/mp3.html if any >> one wants to have a listen - send any criticisms, I'm VERY thick >> skinned >> >> >> Cheers >> >> Charlie >> >> PS Ben - Thanks for adding the hand claps to the new build - >> unfortunately, I already had this song half done when it arrived and >> as I was keen to keep my momentum going i didn't add the new kit. >> Next song I make will have hand claps galore. >> >> Thanks again. It's so cool to be able to request something and >> actually have it happen... >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> Zygoat Doggiebox discussion list - <http://www.doggiebox.com> >> To unsubscribe, view archives or change your options: >> <http://lists.zygoat.ca/mailman/listinfo/doggiebox> >> > >

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Re: [Doggiebox] Some of my tunes...
by Patrick O'Donoghue 17 Nov '03

17 Nov '03

I just listened to "Reach You." Sounds really good. I especially like the guitars, and it's amazing what you've done with the drum track with Doggiebox! I was wondering if you could describe the process in putting that song together. At what point did you build the drum track? It sounds like a lot of tempo changes and fills going on. I could benefit from you describing the creative process.... I tend to first put together a very basic drum track with Doggiebox, then record a song to the track. I then find it to be difficult to go back and retro-fit a new (more fleshed-out) drum track. I'm just curious how you arrange the entire assembly of a song. Do you build the drum track based on a very rough, say for example, acoustic guitar version of the song, then record bass, electric, vocals,etc. to what then is your finished drumtack? I love Doggiebox; it's helped me add a new dimension to what was otherwise drum-less multi-track stuff. Now I'd like to raise the bar a notch and get more efficient at creating some more meaningful drum tracks. Any thoughts from anyone out there are appreciated. Thanks! -Patrick >From: "Ben Kennedy" <ben(a)zygoat.ca> >To: "Doggiebox List(s)" <doggiebox(a)lists.zygoat.ca> >Subject: [Doggiebox] Some of my tunes... >Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 03:50:38 -0500 > >Hey all, > >For anyone interested in how I've been using Doggiebox myself lately, >I've finally thrown together a small collection of some of my recent >projects: > > <http://www.myselfmusic.com/003/> > >My plan is eventually to re-record real drums for these songs, but >Doggiebox does a hell of a stand-in job for the demos don't you say? :) > >There are MP3s and dbsong files for anyone interested. > >In Doggiebox news, I plan to release 1.0.5 by the end of the weekend (I >just need to record a few more sounds to bolster the drum kit, including >those hand claps I promised). > >And... I hope to have an early build of the next generation (1.1) for all >to play with by sometime this coming week. I'm building in better >section and structure editing support now, but it's necessitating a lot >of re-plumbing under the hood. > >-ben > >-- >Ben Kennedy, chief magician >zygoat creative technical services >613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 >http://www.zygoat.ca > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Zygoat Doggiebox discussion list - <http://www.doggiebox.com> > To unsubscribe, view archives or change your options: > <http://lists.zygoat.ca/mailman/listinfo/doggiebox> _________________________________________________________________ Is your computer infected with a virus? Find out with a FREE computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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Minor potential bug in 1.0.5.1a25
by Christoph 12 Nov '03

12 Nov '03

Ben - I've noticed that when I export songs now, the progress dialog (I guess its not really a dialog anymore, I can't think of the name now) remains on-screen, even after the progress has hit %100. If I click ANYWHERE in the Doggiebox window it slides back up. The exported files are complete and ok. Is this something to do with Panther compatibility? It is a very minor issue since functionality is not broken. Has anyone else noticed this? Cheers, Christoph PS. I am still using the Jag 10.2.8.

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Kit building feature request
by Mike Carlyle 12 Nov '03

12 Nov '03

Ben, How hard would it be to include an "export sound" button in the kit building window? Sometimes, when building a kit, or modifying another's kit, it is neccessary to tweak a sound and import it back into a revised DB kit. Example: my ns_kit that I sent you has a ride crash in it that has a tiny bit of excess space at the front of it, causing it to sound like it's slightly mis-hit when played in a song. I want to export the sound, clip the start, and import it back in. My original sound file is (hypothetically) not available. Currently, I must put the sound into a song, export it, edit it, then import it back. It would be great to save the song building step and just export it from the kit. Having said all that, it would be a redundant feature if you decided that it was worthwhile to implement the export of discreet drum sounds from a song file. In other words, I could more easily post process the sounds if they could be exported as separate wave files, making the "export sound" button not as important. I appreciate you listening. I hope others are finding the application as useful and rewarding to use as I am. I'm getting pretty good reviews from the folks that I've either programmed tracks for, or who have heard my stuff in songs. Thanks again in advance for whatever you come up with next.

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1.0.5 released
by Ben Kennedy 11 Nov '03

11 Nov '03

Howdy all, The release version of Doggiebox 1.0.5 is now up. Here is the complete list of changes since 1.0.4: - Added a new preferences option, "Allow final sounds to decay completely". The default setting is on, which maintains the standard behaviour where Doggiebox intelligently lets sounds (e.g. crash cymbals) decay at the end of song. However, if you are exporting patterns for use as loops, you can now turn this off to achieve output of precise duration. - Added support for cut/copy/pasting of drums (with all attributes, e.g. sound, name, and icon) in the drum kit editor. - Improved the play/stop button so that response during playback is now instant, instead of sometimes briefly hanging. - Improved handling of the licence registration key so that it is now automatically recognised for all user accounts on the computer. - Fixed a bug that caused Doggiebox to truncate the last beat of each bar by a fraction of a second. While imperceivable under normal circumstances, this was causing problems for people exporting files to use as loops, etc. - Fixed a bug where drum kit reconciliation did not work properly under Mac OS 10.3. - Fixed a bug where the position indicator would sometimes stop moving in mid-song during playback. - Fixed a bug where selecting a different drum kit while editing a song would sometimes affect only some of the drums. - Fixed a font dependency that could cause mysterious non-behaviour under some circumstances. - Other minor fixes for Mac OS 10.1 compatibility (the playback indicator now works instead of crashing; a hang after exporting should be eliminated). - Changed the keyboard shortcut for Preferences from cmd-; to cmd-, in respect of Apple human interface guidelines. - Added a few additional sounds to Ben's Premier Kit. Due to bugs in the current version of Stuffit Expander in dealing with permissions in .sit files, I'm bundling Doggiebox this time as a .bz2 archive. Stuffit Expander will handle it fine though (I've tested with both 7.0.3 and 8.0), and it affords slightly better compression to boot. <http://www.doggiebox.com/distribution/Doggiebox.bz2> Enjoy, -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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Re: [Doggiebox] Some of my tunes...
by Patrick O'Donoghue 10 Nov '03

10 Nov '03

Thanks for such a detailed response, I really appreciate it. The main points I got from your response, which I feel will be most helpful to me are: 1) Take the time to finish writing a song before recording what will be the "final" version. As a newbie to digital recording, I think I've tended to record my "demo" tracks, then gotten so excited about the fun of recording that I keep adding stuff to the demo and end up with a very fleshed-out demo with a very rudimentary drum track. 2) The ease of use of Doggiebox lends itself so well to recording quick demos of songs that it really enhances the "demo" experience. I think I just need the discipline to recognize the difference between my scratch tracks and my final versions of songs, and then adhere to a songwriting strategy that allows for spontaneity, but not at the expense of making a song as good as it can be (i.e., take some time after getting a musical idea to map out a meaningful drum pattern). I don't know if any of this makes any sense to anyone else, but I feel like I've sort of uncluttered my musical mind..... Thanks again for your response. -Patrick ...just listened to Costello Jam...good stuff.... >From: "Ben Kennedy" <ben(a)zygoat.ca> >To: "Patrick O'Donoghue" <pdiddyod(a)hotmail.com>, "Doggiebox List(s)" ><doggiebox(a)lists.zygoat.ca> >Subject: Re: [Doggiebox] Some of my tunes... >Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 12:05:20 -0500 > >On 09 11 2003 at 11:47 am -0500, Patrick O'Donoghue wrote: > > >I just listened to "Reach You." Sounds really good. I especially like >the > >guitars, and it's amazing what you've done with the drum track with > >Doggiebox! > >Thanks for the props. I'm quite happy with how that tune turned out as >well. As others have mentioned earlier, I think a great deal about how >good or fake a Doggiebox track sounds depends on how you place it in the >mix. Also, some compression on the track can fatten things up, and >layering lots of other sound over top of it doesn't hurt either. :) > > >I was wondering if you could describe the process in putting that song > >together. At what point did you build the drum track? It sounds like a >lot > >of tempo changes and fills going on. I could benefit from you describing >the > >creative process.... > >Good question. > >First of all, I wrote the tune on acoustic guitar. Once I had the >structure settled out, I immediately went into Doggiebox and scored out >the drum track. Then I imported it into Audiodesk, and laid out >electric, acoustic, bass, leads, and finally vocals in that order. > >It's almost always easiest to put down the drum track first. On the >other hand, recording to a click and then pulling in drums later would >work too. But I figured if I'm going to generate a click I may as well >generate a crappy drum line instead, and if I'm going to generate a >crappy drum line, may as well make it sound kinda decent with Doggiebox. :) > >The tempo changes in Reach You are actually far simpler than what they >may seem to the casual ear -- actually, if you open the dbsong file, >you'll see there are no tempo changes at all. The only real change is at >the acoustic bridge where it goes into the half-time feel, but the song >remains in 4|4 at 160 bpm throughout. > >On the other hand, you'll note there is some tempo hackery toward the end >of Burgundy Conversation -- I wanted a ritardando at the end followed by >a bit of a pause right before the last phrase, so you'll see how I >accomplished this in Doggiebox -- manual tempo reduction over the course >of a couple bars. Not ideal, but it achieves the objective. > >As a side note, in one of those songs (I can't remember which, and the >evidence may even still be present in the mix that's online, I'm not >sure), I inadvertently screwed up some of the fills by switching drum >kits a few times in Doggiebox so that ultimately, several different tom >toms ended up mapped into the same one. The result was that tom fills >sounded like machine gun fire. This was easy to remedy though by simply >re-exporting/importing the track afterwards (since the tempos were >untouched all I had to do was line it up at the start point). > > >I tend to first put together a very basic drum track with Doggiebox, then > >record a song to the track. I then find it to be difficult to go back and > >retro-fit a new (more fleshed-out) drum track. > >Due to timing issues or creative (sound design) issues? > >Having started out as a drummer, I tend to think like one (or at least >try to) when writing songs, so I usually have at least some pre-concieved >notions about which cymbals, textures and so on I want to fit with >various parts of the song. I suspect that having that basis down to >begin with during recording also helps influence the style and >performance I give on the other instruments. So I can see how revamping >the drums after the fact could get interesting, although this isn't >something I've played around with a lot yet. > >-ben > >-- >Ben Kennedy, chief magician >zygoat creative technical services >613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 >http://www.zygoat.ca > > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger with backgrounds, emoticons and more. http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_customize

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Some of my tunes...
by Sion Morris 10 Nov '03

10 Nov '03

> Hey all, > > For anyone interested in how I've been using Doggiebox myself lately, > I've finally thrown together a small collection of some of my recent > projects: > > <http://www.myselfmusic.com/003/> > > My plan is eventually to re-record real drums for these songs, but > Doggiebox does a hell of a stand-in job for the demos don't you say? :) Like these a lot Ben especially the Harmonies at the end of 'Reach you' I think there's a kind of Dandy Warhols quality to them. Sion

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Doggiebox November 2003