Doggiebox April 2004

doggiebox@lists.zygoat.ca

16 participants
21 discussions

Wish List
by The Reverend 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

>As I am not a MIDI expert, I'm open to as much detailed discussion on how >to impelement MIDI as you folks might require. Can you explain more how >you would envision the start/stop and section changing to work? What I would love to see would be to be able to plug in something like the Behringer 1010 and then configure it, for example, to have the expression pedal control tempo, pedal 1 starts and stops, pedal 2 turns loop mode on/off, pedal 3 selects section 1, pedal 4 selects section 2, and so on. (The Thing I was talking about in the above paragraph: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=040420161243068064252239513915/ g=home/search/detail/base_pid/182469/ ) This would let me play a live gig and switch between verse and chorus on the fly. *********************************** -- The Reverend Rat -- Rock and roll like it still matters. http://www.revrat.com ***********************************

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Re: [Doggiebox] Wish List
by Carl Edlund Anderson 18 Jun '04

18 Jun '04

Mike Carlyle wrote: > I assumed you were using a Mac for recording as well as DB'ing (that's > right, it's now a verb) Verbing trends words! :) No, my Mac is an audio generator but not a recorder. And I don't see that changing anytime soon, since I would need to invest a healthy chunk of money that I don't have to get reasonable audio inputs into the Mac and probably a semi-decent multi-track recording app. And probably actually a lot more money to get a machine better suited to the task than an iBook, and a big old monitor to keep an eye on what's going one with my different tracks without going blind ;) So all my recording is to my offboard deck, picking up whatever I send it over analog audio connections :) > I'd probably make use of groups from time to time, but I still maintain > that the ability to get individual output should at least be an option. Agreed! Though if one can configure groups, I would imagine that one could configure single instrument (or sample) "groups" as well as multiple instrument groups. BTW, complete non-sequitur: What are DBing guitarists using for home recording? I've done my one posted project with DB drums using the built in amp sims in my Roland VS-1680 recording module since my apt. is currently too small to keep my old 50w Laney combo in the office/studio/bedroom -- and though that turned out OK, it's not the most flexible thing in the world. I've been considering going down the road of something like a V-Amp (maybe the Bass V-Amp, since it has has both guitar and bass amp simulators) that would in theory give me a bunch of amp toys in a small, quiet package, though I understand you can't really stick extra outboard effects (like my pile of old stompboxes) in an effects loop like you can with a normal guitar amp, which is a bit lame, IMO. Anyone have a compact, flexible solution they like? I don't really want to go with a Mac-based solution because of the difficulty of getting audio into my iBook! (I don't want to turn the DB list into a home-recording list, but I did figure some folks here might have some thoughts on these issues. Y'all can mail me off-list if that would be better!). Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/

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Upcoming Kits
by The Reverend 29 Apr '04

29 Apr '04

Just out of curiosity, are any of you working on new drum kits to upload? I keep bugging my brother-in-law (the one I did the djembe kit with) to come over with some of his other drums. He has hundreds of them, and has actually reached the stage where he writes them off on his taxes. It's a sickness, it really is... Anyway, being the enabler that I am, in the planning stage right now are: -A full Melenke kit- three djembes and three dunnuns. -A kit based on Carl's jazz kit -A conga set (he has 6) -A "misc percussion" set of woodblocks, cowbells, boomwhackers, rain stick, and whatever else we have lying around. I'd love to see a latin percussion kit and a symphony kit with timpanis and such... *********************************** -- The Reverend Rat -- Rock and roll like it still matters. http://www.revrat.com ***********************************

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Recording Setups & the Best Bang for Your Buck
by The Reverend 28 Apr '04

28 Apr '04

>BTW, complete non-sequitur: What are DBing guitarists using for home recording? (-Carl Edlund Anderson) Good question. I'd like to know what other people are using, too. This is my setup- I'm including prices for some things, just to show that you can have a great system without paying $30,000 for a bunch of DigiDesign stuff. Computers: 733 G4 tower with 1Gb Ram, 100Gb (a 60 & a 40) HD 677 G4 PowerBook with 384Mb / 30Gb HD 120Gb Lacie external firewire HD Input / Output: M-Audio Firewire 410: 6 in/10 out. A great box for around $400. Software: BIAS Deck: ($400 total- upgraded from the $99 Deck LE) Multitracker with 64 playback & 999 virtual tracks, VST, 5.1 surround mixing, and a buttload of other features. BIAS Peak LE: (included w/ full version of Deck) A waveform editor with VST and AU support. DoggieBox: Our favorite drum machine :-) Myriad Melody Assistant: Composition software with MIDI and a host of other features. At under $20, it has the same capabilities of programs retailing for $300-$700. Apple GarageBand: Love it! Great for experimenting with arrangements. Various software filling supporting roles: SimpleSynth, MidiKeys, Apple Soundtrack Loop Utility, Dent Du Midi, Audio Hijack, and iTunes. Microphones: 2 Oktava MK-310 Condensers ($699 list, Guitar Center was selling a truckload for $99 each) 2 Shure SM-57 1 Shure SM-58 1 old Fender mic that works great with my particular voice. Other Stuff: A Fender Roadhouse Strat, Samick bass, cheap Casio keyboard I keep meaning to replace, and a big horkin' pile of effects pedals, cheaper guitars, miscellaneous junk, cables, other instruments and whatnot. Also, a PowerBook 5300 that I stuck into my pedal board to keep my sheet music handy. -Mike *********************************** -- The Reverend Rat -- Rock and roll like it still matters. http://www.revrat.com ***********************************

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1C2: initial MIDI support
by Ben Kennedy 27 Apr '04

27 Apr '04

Hey all, A new beta build with initial MIDI support is now up for your perusal! Grab it at <http://www.doggiebox.com/distribution/Doggiebox-1C2.zip> Here are the release notes (also included in the download), to whet your whistle. --------------------------------------- Notes for 1C2 (26 April 2004): This build is Doggiebox's first emergence with the beginnings of MIDI support. If you have MIDI devices that you use in your music-making, this is for you. Over the coming weeks we would like to solicit usability, performance and functionality feedback from anybody who uses MIDI in a real-world situation. As there is a huge range of hardware and software (e.g. keyboards, drum machines, sequencers, etc.) which support MIDI, your feedback -- particularly as Doggiebox relates to the stuff you are using -- will be immensely valuable in crafting MIDI support in Doggiebox. THEORY BEHIND MIDI OPERATION The goal with this series is to equip Doggiebox to provide real-time input and playback with any MIDI-compliant software and hardware devices. In this build, it is possible to configure MIDI events that correspond to drums in Doggiebox drum kit files, and then play back Doggiebox songs to MIDI devices instead of (or in addition to) your computer speakers. If you have outboard MIDI hardware, you should first set it up according to the manufacturer's instructions and ensure that it is configured and available in the Apple Audio MIDI Setup utility (found in your / Applications/Utilities folder). Alternatively, various MIDI-compliant software will register itself with the system automatically with little or no setup required. CHANGES TO THE USER INTERFACE Here's what's new in the UI since Doggiebox 1.1.1 as it relates to MIDI: • In the Preferences, there are pop-up buttons with which to choose the MIDI source and destination devices. The available choices will reflect devices as configured in the Apple Audio Midi Setup tool, as well as any virtual endpoints belonging to applications that are running. Choose a source for "MIDI in from" (Doggiebox will listen to this device), and a target for "MIDI out to" (Doggiebox will play back through this device). • In the drum kit document window, there is a new table column labeled "MIDI" and a corresponding input field near the bottom of the window. This field indicates what MIDI "note on" message is sent when the corresponding drum plays back, as well as what is listened for when selecting instruments during editing. To set the MIDI message for a drum, click on the "MIDI message" field at the bottom of the window and then send the desired event (e.g., press a key on your keyboard or drum machine). To dissociate any MIDI message from the instrument, click "none". To hear the event, click "test" to play it on the chosen output device. • In the song document window, there are two new checkboxes labeled "Play audio" and "Play MIDI". These determine whether normal audio playback (with Doggiebox drum kit sounds) and/or outbound MIDI are enabled, respectively. ERRATA AND NOTES • Currently, only "note on" events are sent over MIDI. This will cause some sounds, such as crash cymbals and open hi-hats, to sound strange (e.g. with inappropriately long decay) depending on your playback device. This will be fixed shortly, with accompanying "note off" events happening where they should. • Currently, all MIDI playback is sent at full velocity (as defined in the drum kit) regardless of the "master volume" slider in the song editor. This will be fixed shortly. • MIDI input is not currently observed in the song editor (e.g. for switching instruments or real-time input). This will be implemented eventually. • The included update to Ben's Premier Kit has MIDI messages configured for most instruments which correspond to the General MIDI channel 10 drum patch. Developmental testing has been done using SimpleSynth as a virtual playback device, available from <http://pete.yandell.com/software/>. --------------------------------------- Please post any impressions, remarks, compatibility notes, suggestions and so on to the list or to me. So far, I have not been able to work with any physical outboard gear; instead I have been using a combination of software synths for I/O. So feedback from those of you with actual equipment will be interesting! Thanks, and enjoy, -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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Re: [Doggiebox] Wish List
by Ben Kennedy 26 Apr '04

26 Apr '04

On 20 4 2004 at 8:43 am -0400, mcarlyle(a)charter.net wrote: >It wouldn't matter. Once the export is done, you've got individual >instrument tracks, period. It doesn't matter where they were originally born. True, if you want every single instrument on its own track. I guess I was thinking that you may also wish to configure subgroups, e.g. cymbals into a stereo pair, toms as another pair, then snare and kick. Is there a demand for this? If so, would it be sufficient to assign such groupings within the drum kit config? I presume so. -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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MIDI file availability
by Dan Costello 22 Apr '04

22 Apr '04

> Alas, I haven't actually got any MIDI stuff to use to see how it works > in practice :P > > Cheers, > Carl > Hey Carl-- Dan Costello from Boise. Thought I might try to help the MIDI cause. What's funny about this current thread is that for a long time I thought DoggieBox itself must somehow be built upon MIDI principles. Silly me. For practice MIDI bits: A search on the web will yield plenty of MIDI files to work with, and freeware/shareware MIDI editors exist as well. The free version of ProTools (in OS 9... yawn) I'm using has a great visual MIDI editing capability-- you can actually SEE all the MIDI messages as little specks on the screen. I'm pretty sure your 1680 will show you similar things on its little LCD screen, but I'm not positive-- one of the studio guys I work with here in town used to have one, but I think I learned more about its MIDI capabilities in one afternoon of flipping through the manual than he did the whole time he owned it. Might've been more work to learn than it was worth, but most of the smaller digital workstations are really handcuffed for effectiveness without harnessing MIDI. Here's a link to a file I recently downloaded that I need to rehearse for a gig I have coming up later this summer... it has a good variety of instruments in it, but also must have some fairly detailed tempo info in it as well, as the ritards, a tempos, and fermatas are very smooth in playback (through a basic QuickTime player). Might be a good one to dissect and study. http://www.aria-database.com/sounds/midi/gianni2_omio.mid Also, if you're into the band Guster, they have a great website with all kinds of screwy audio files from live shows, other bands covering their songs, them covering other people's songs... and a handful of MIDI files! (last time I was there, anyway.) Weird, but cool. Might be a bit more interesting than Puccini. http://media.guster.net/

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another request
by Erik Contzius 22 Apr '04

22 Apr '04

I'd love to see pre-programmed rhythms (funk, march, polka) provided either in external files or something within the program. for us non-drummers, I want to start with a rhythm and go from there. libraries of doggie box stuff is sparse. Help us non drummers!!! erik Cantor Erik L. F. Contzius New Rochelle, NY http://tinr.org/ http://rozhinke.org/

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Wish List
by The Reverend 21 Apr '04

21 Apr '04

For what it's worth, here are my top suggestions for upcoming versions. Some are easy, some are way to complicated to actually do, but hey- it's food for thought... 1) Export of each drum into separate tracks. 2) Individual volume sliders for each drum that would allow you to mix the kit for playback or export. 3) MIDI support. I'd love to be able to use a MIDI controller to program, or even better, to start/stop and switch between sections in a live environment. 4) A duplicate command in the kit editor. 5) More than 5 available drum lines- I'd love to see the number of available rows as a preference or as part of the kit editor. 6) A "publish" button in the kit editor that would upload the kit to the library. 7) An icon editor in the kit editor. ********************************************** ^_^ -- The Reverend Rat -- (oo) Rock and roll like it still matters. \ / >V< http://www.revrat.com **********************************************

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Oooh! Oooh! Thought of another one!
by The Reverend 21 Apr '04

21 Apr '04

Ahem... AU support. *********************************** -- The Reverend Rat -- Rock and roll like it still matters. http://www.revrat.com ***********************************

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Doggiebox April 2004