Doggiebox June 2004

doggiebox@lists.zygoat.ca

12 participants
21 discussions

Wish List
by The Reverend 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

>As I am not a MIDI expert, I'm open to as much detailed discussion on how >to impelement MIDI as you folks might require. Can you explain more how >you would envision the start/stop and section changing to work? What I would love to see would be to be able to plug in something like the Behringer 1010 and then configure it, for example, to have the expression pedal control tempo, pedal 1 starts and stops, pedal 2 turns loop mode on/off, pedal 3 selects section 1, pedal 4 selects section 2, and so on. (The Thing I was talking about in the above paragraph: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=040420161243068064252239513915/ g=home/search/detail/base_pid/182469/ ) This would let me play a live gig and switch between verse and chorus on the fly. *********************************** -- The Reverend Rat -- Rock and roll like it still matters. http://www.revrat.com ***********************************

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1C3: Recipes and faster kits
by Ben Kennedy 17 Aug '04

17 Aug '04

Folks, A new build is up at <http://www.doggiebox.com/distribution/Doggiebox- 1C3.zip> for your boxing pleasure! Following are the release notes as included in the archive. Please read them through, then play around with drum kits with the new build and let me know if you run into any anomalies or performance issues. As you will see, I have tried to devise a neat solution to the "recipe" idea that has been bandied about on this list for some time. Provided that this works as well as planned, it should provide an almost- transparent way to create and distribute "recipe"-based drum kits while requiring virtually no new learning curve for the end user. Let me know how it goes, and hopefully we can finally get some distributable ns_kit and GarageBand dbkits moving around! -ben ------------------------------ Notes for 1C3 (11 May 2004): This build contains some major improvements to the underlying mechanics of drum kit system, facilitating faster load times for songs as well as support for linked (as opposed to embedded) sound files. The .dbkit file format has changed in this version and now uses a "bundle" (enclosed subdirectory) format. On systems running a pre-1C3 version, new drum kits may appear in the Finder as a folder containing several files. If the included "GB Rock Drums.dbkit" appears to be a folder (instead of a file with the usual dbkit icon), make sure you delete any older copies of Doggiebox. You may also have to logout and re-login. Waveform data for each drum sound is now stored individually in the drum kit and each is loaded on demand as required, as opposed to all waveforms for the entire kit loading at once as before. This should result in better memory management, as well as faster response when opening drum kits and song files (particularly noticable with large drum kits). To upgrade existing kits to the new format, simply open them up in the drum kit editor and re-save them. In addition to deferred loading, the new kit format now also facilitates linking to external sound files as opposed to saving them within the drum kit file. This way, it is now possible to create kits based on audio repositories from other sources (such as GarageBand and ns_kit) and exchange them with others without having to duplicate and transport all of the audio data. If you attempt to use a drum kit containing linked sounds which you did not assemble, it is likely that Doggiebox will not initially know where to find the audio files. In such a case, the user will be automatically prompted to choose a folder in which to search for the sounds. Doggiebox will perform a recursive search and attempt to locate sound files matching the originally linked filenames, and remember them from then on. CHANGES TO THE DRUM KIT EDITOR: The drum list has a new column, labeled "Sound". Clicking in this column will activate a pop-up menu allowing you to specify whether to Embed or Link the waveform data for each drum sound. By default Doggiebox will Embed (as in previous versions), but you can also choose to Link, in which case the audio data for that drum will not be saved in the drum kit file. Above the drum list is a button labeled "Fix Links", which will manually invoke the link resolution process by prompting you to choose a folder to scan for sound files. Doggiebox will then attempt to locate sound files for any broken links. Before being prompted to choose a folder, an explanatory alert will be displayed. Clicking the "Set Prompt..." button allows you to customize the message that's shown. (It is advisable to provide some helpful text, depending on the nature of the drum kit, to point the user in the right direction. For example, "please choose the folder containing the files you downloaded from nskit.com"). The link-fixing process will be invoked automatically if you open a song file that uses a kit containing broken links. OTHER CHANGES IN THIS BUILD: No changes to MIDI since 1C2. Effort in this cycle was focused on the drum kit system only. Next build will contain MIDI improvements. (Is anybody actually testing MIDI? I have received zero feedback since 1C2.) The master tempo slider in the song editor has been adjusted so that there should no longer be ambiguity about the middle setting really being 100%. Also, minor cosmetic changes to the push/pull tempo buttons. GENERAL TESTING NOTES: The included "GB Rock Drums.dbkit" is an initial (incomplete) effort at creating a dbkit for the Rock Drums kit supplied with Apple's GarageBand, using icons from the Reverend Rat's set. If you have GarageBand installed on your system, please attempt using this kit and report any problems you have making it work. If anyone would like to pick up the ball and complete this kit, I would encourage it -- please mention so on the mailing list so we can avoid duplication of effort. I would like to eventually have all of the GarageBand kits available for when Doggiebox 1.2 is ready for release. Same with ns_kit 7, too! This build has been tested under 10.3.{3,4}, but not 10.2. As usual, please report any and all feedback either to Ben or to the mailing list. Enjoy! ------------------------------ Again, it's snaggable at <http://www.doggiebox.com/distribution/ Doggiebox-1C3.zip> -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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DJO the Maze and 12 bar blues
by Ben Kennedy 26 Jun '04

26 Jun '04

Hey all, I am quite behind on the list here, and hope to catch up shortly. In the mean time just a couple of quickie site updates: 1. Mike "The Reverend Rat" has sent in a 12-bar blues piece (with demo mp3 and dbsong) which is now up in the library. 2. I got this message from a user the other day, which you might find interesting: >I'm a musician from Paris called "DJO the Maze". You can hear my work at the >fashion show of Stella Cadente (french feminin ready-to-wear brand) in which >i make the mixes... And my own music is a sort of Ninja Tune style but the >concept is that there are no samples, only real instruments, for the moment >you can download 2 tracks at : //djothemaze.parkingstudio.com/ >I'm working on the album, all instruments recorded, except the drum because >the studio sessions are too expensive... That's why i bought Doggiebox! Very >useful! -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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Re: doubled notes issue
by Dan Costello 19 Jun '04

19 Jun '04

> I am in the middle of doing drum tracks for a demo (natch), and when I > export the audio, it doubles some notes in various places throughout > the > song... (snip) Any other specifics? What version of DB? What kit? How is the file set up (any meter/tempo changes)? I mainly use the Hemberger Stereo kit and the more recently added 70's Ludwig kit, but also a couple other kits, and it's never done that to me. And I've exported some pretty crazy stuff, 7/8 to 4/4, 5/4, mixed tempos, insane triplet "scrape" fills, mixed kits (with pieces of other kits added in), songs as long as 7 minutes, etc. Unless someone knows exactly how to fix this, would you be willing to send me your .dbsong file? I've got some time this afternoon-- I could test it on my setup. If you do send the file, be sure to send it straight to my email address (as you can't send files via the email list). Cheers, Dan

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Doggie Box Strangeness
by Jimmy Arceneaux 18 Jun '04

18 Jun '04

Hello, I hope I am sending this to the right place. Let me see if I cn explain my problem. I am in the middle of doing drum tracks for a demo (natch), and when I export the audio, it doubles some notes in various places throughout the song. It doesn't do this while I am listening to play back in DB, only on export. I have done averything from bringing down the overall volume, to just exporting sections, and it still does this. Needless to say, it has me tearing my hair out. Suggestions and witty banter appreciated! -- --------------------- --------------------- Jimmy Arceneaux Talent Buyer Pound SF Nightclub

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Re: [Doggiebox] Imitating double bass drum?
by mcarlyle＠charter.net 18 Jun '04

18 Jun '04

Assuming the obvious reply (why???) is innapropriate, I think you're more or less on the right track. If you're after realism, you should be careful with your hi-hat. You can't be double-bassing and foot pedaling your hi-hat simultaneously. You can hit the closed hi-hat with a stick if your real-life kit has one of those clutches that allow you to disconnect the pedal and allow gravity to let the top cymbal sit on top of the bottom one. There's also the double pedal/single drum configuration to consider. In this case, the drum does not have time to relax before the "left" foot hits it and therefore, purists will insist that it is not true double-bass. Personally, the only double bass tune I've ever appreciated is Alex VanHalen's intro to Hot for Teacher. He also does some very interesting things with the timing of his ride in that intro. > > From: Carl Edlund Anderson <cea(a)carlaz.com> > Date: 2004/06/18 Fri AM 11:35:12 EDT > To: Doggiebox <doggiebox(a)lists.zygoat.ca> > Subject: [Doggiebox] Imitating double bass drum? > > > While strolling along with the iPod today, Motorhead's old chestnut > "Overkill" popped up with its insane bass drum intro. I think I've read > this was actually played on a single drum pedal, but it sure feels like > a double bass drum pedal to me, and I starting wondering how to imitate > that kinda double bass drum vibe in DB. > > I don't know enough about the dynamics of drumming to really know what > makes what sound like what, but I'm guessing maybe one foot (the > drummer's dominant?) would consistently have a harder attack, and > therefore different sound? Perhaps one could just make a "left" and > "right" foot in the dbkit (like the ns_kit Mike made has "left" and > "right" snare) using a slightly lower velocity for the "left" foot > (assuming a right-footed drummer, though the ns_kit snares actually use > sampled hits made by a left and a right hand, I think :) Or perhaps a > sample from a different but similar kick drum for the other "foot"? > > I guess one might want to pan the two feet a bit to either side of the > stereo spectrum, though that's more a mixing issue .... > > Any thoughts from people who understand these things better than I? > > Cheers, > Carl > > -- > Carl Edlund Anderson > http://www.carlaz.com/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Zygoat Doggiebox discussion list - <http://www.doggiebox.com> > To unsubscribe, view archives or change your options: > <http://lists.zygoat.ca/mailman/listinfo/doggiebox> >

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Imitating double bass drum?
by Carl Edlund Anderson 18 Jun '04

18 Jun '04

While strolling along with the iPod today, Motorhead's old chestnut "Overkill" popped up with its insane bass drum intro. I think I've read this was actually played on a single drum pedal, but it sure feels like a double bass drum pedal to me, and I starting wondering how to imitate that kinda double bass drum vibe in DB. I don't know enough about the dynamics of drumming to really know what makes what sound like what, but I'm guessing maybe one foot (the drummer's dominant?) would consistently have a harder attack, and therefore different sound? Perhaps one could just make a "left" and "right" foot in the dbkit (like the ns_kit Mike made has "left" and "right" snare) using a slightly lower velocity for the "left" foot (assuming a right-footed drummer, though the ns_kit snares actually use sampled hits made by a left and a right hand, I think :) Or perhaps a sample from a different but similar kick drum for the other "foot"? I guess one might want to pan the two feet a bit to either side of the stereo spectrum, though that's more a mixing issue .... Any thoughts from people who understand these things better than I? Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/

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Re: [Doggiebox] Wish List
by Carl Edlund Anderson 18 Jun '04

18 Jun '04

Mike Carlyle wrote: > I assumed you were using a Mac for recording as well as DB'ing (that's > right, it's now a verb) Verbing trends words! :) No, my Mac is an audio generator but not a recorder. And I don't see that changing anytime soon, since I would need to invest a healthy chunk of money that I don't have to get reasonable audio inputs into the Mac and probably a semi-decent multi-track recording app. And probably actually a lot more money to get a machine better suited to the task than an iBook, and a big old monitor to keep an eye on what's going one with my different tracks without going blind ;) So all my recording is to my offboard deck, picking up whatever I send it over analog audio connections :) > I'd probably make use of groups from time to time, but I still maintain > that the ability to get individual output should at least be an option. Agreed! Though if one can configure groups, I would imagine that one could configure single instrument (or sample) "groups" as well as multiple instrument groups. BTW, complete non-sequitur: What are DBing guitarists using for home recording? I've done my one posted project with DB drums using the built in amp sims in my Roland VS-1680 recording module since my apt. is currently too small to keep my old 50w Laney combo in the office/studio/bedroom -- and though that turned out OK, it's not the most flexible thing in the world. I've been considering going down the road of something like a V-Amp (maybe the Bass V-Amp, since it has has both guitar and bass amp simulators) that would in theory give me a bunch of amp toys in a small, quiet package, though I understand you can't really stick extra outboard effects (like my pile of old stompboxes) in an effects loop like you can with a normal guitar amp, which is a bit lame, IMO. Anyone have a compact, flexible solution they like? I don't really want to go with a Mac-based solution because of the difficulty of getting audio into my iBook! (I don't want to turn the DB list into a home-recording list, but I did figure some folks here might have some thoughts on these issues. Y'all can mail me off-list if that would be better!). Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/

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Re: crashes
by Dan Costello 17 Jun '04

17 Jun '04

> > From: Corey Knafelz <corey(a)fuzzylogical.com> > Subject: [Doggiebox] Crashing? > > All the doggiebox betas have been crashing on me. Is anyone else > experiencing this? Just cruising along, then infinite spinning beach > ball until force quit. I'm not experiencing this problem with any other > applications on my powerbook. I've been sticking with 1b6, but I haven't had any crash problems. Only thing I've been bothered by is the naming-- I can name the .dbsong file one thing, but that doesn't show up in the editing screen as the name of the piece. Is that supposed to be like that? So you can have the filename be a different reference or naming scheme, and then have the full name "inside" the file? Also, I've had difficulty sometimes changing the tempo/time setting. It seems to have the most trouble with this after I've changed the name of a section, or changed some characteristic about it in the playlist... anyway, if I "undo" clear back to the first change I made to the section, then it lets me change the tempo. Otherwise, though, it lets me bring up the "change tempo/time" dialogue, and lets me change the numbers in the fields, but when I hit "modify" the dialogue box closes, and nothing changes.

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Re: 2 things on 1c7
by Dan Costello 17 Jun '04

17 Jun '04

Also, couple of things on the recent build: 1. Very minor cosmetic fix: The up and down buttons next to the tempo are slightly overlapped. This obscures the down button. They both still work, but... 2. This may have been covered before; seems familiar somehow. Anyway, I've got a couple pretty long files going now, and I was in the middle of playing back through one of them when the &#$% cat wanted in. Yowling, scratching the screen, making me crazy. So I hit, uh, wait, crap, there's no pause button. If I hit STOP, I'll have to either highlight the entire second half of the song to play it back, or just start over from the beginning again (which is 3 solid minutes of drums...) If I just let it run, I'll miss the part I wanted to hear by the time I get back from scolding the $%&*ing cat. And there's no ignoring this cat. Fifteen pounds of attitude and "I ain't goin' NO-WHERE 'til you let me in and feed me, you ungrateful slave." So... pause button? Or at least a way to "play from this point on" rather than just the highlighted measures? I'll do some MIDI file testing this afternoon. Cheers Dan

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Doggiebox June 2004