February 2004 - Doggiebox - lists.zygoat.ca

ns_kit6/7
by Carl Edlund Anderson 02 Apr '04

02 Apr '04

I noticed that the new version of ns_kit, version 7, is now available for download. And I grabbed it :) but was wondering if any of you still have the WAV samples from the previous ns_kit6 lying around? I used to have them, but I think I lost them in a disk crash some weeks back! Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/

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Frustrated
by Mike Carlyle 09 Mar '04

09 Mar '04

I'm completely stumped by version 1.1B (build 3)'s section editor and layout editor. I get the fact that I can choose sections for playback and that is helpful, but it is offset by the fact that I can no longer add sections or insert bars. Previously, I could highlight some bars, choose "new section" in the section area down on the left, and my selected bars became a new section. Now, when I do this I get a blank new section with no bars. I can't add bars to the new section. I can't add a new "layout" either, whatever that is. Is a layout a section? I don't get it. When I add a new "layout", I end up with a duplicate of the one before it. As I understand it, this version produces a song file format that is not compatible with earlier versions. Do I need to grab the current release and start over? I find this confounding User Interface very frustrating. It's killed my inspiration for today.

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pasting bug
by Tor Lillegraven 01 Mar '04

01 Mar '04

every time I cut and paste into the new build (having seleted "all" in the layout section -- eg. showing the whole song) , the cursor jumps to the end of the song. This gets extremely annoying, cause I loose track of where I was (I have a small brain;) I have to scroll back to find where I did the pasting... Am I the only one experienceing this? tor ***************************************************************** Denne fotnoten bekrefter at denne e-postmeldingen ble skannet av MailSweeper og funnet fri for virus. ***************************************************************** This footnote confirms that this email message has been swept by MailSweeper for the presence of computer viruses. *****************************************************************

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Re: [Doggiebox] Frustrated
by Mike Carlyle 29 Feb '04

29 Feb '04

Thanks Tor, As sorry as I am to say it, I must consider the current beta release to be unusable for serious programming due to some very non-intuitive interface behavior. The observation you made about the layout changes being global is killing me as well. If I have a "verse 1" and a "verse 2", I certainly do not expect changes in one of them to also occur in the other. I'm going to start this particular project over again using the current release version. On Sunday, February 29, 2004, at 12:46 PM, Tor Lillegraven wrote: > Hi Mike > > I saw your mail earlier today, and was considering "warning" you about > the new build. I guess you found out for yourself :-P > > The new editors are hardly very intuitive -- but one I got it worked > out, it seemed like a good idea -- being able to just "repeat" various > parts throughout the song using scripting, rather than having to cut > and > paste you way through the song. > > I guess u make up the various parts of the song in the section editor > -- verse, chorus, etc -- and then actually build them (add drums) in > the > layout editor. Next step is to deciede the running order of the song in > the layout editor: verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bride chorus x 2 or > whatever. > > But as I got into it, I got frustrated because as I was making changes > to a part of the song, the change would be global. To me, working like > this gets confusing, because I tend to put in different fills between > parts. this is very tricky to do in the new version -- you end up > having > to make verse 1,2,3,4 and chorus 1,2,3,4... > > this is a logistical nightmare -- just cutting and pasting like I did > in the pervios build seemed so much easier... but maybe I`m not doing > this right... > > also: the section arent very clearly marked when you show "all" in the > layout sections. Some kind of color coding or something to that effect > would be very helpful. > > > >> Tor > > > > >>>> Mike Carlyle <mcarlyle(a)charter.net> 29.02.2004 18:01:36 >>> > I'm completely stumped by version 1.1B (build 3)'s section editor and > layout editor. I get the fact that I can choose sections for playback > and that is helpful, but it is offset by the fact that I can no longer > > add sections or insert bars. > > Previously, I could highlight some bars, choose "new section" in the > section area down on the left, and my selected bars became a new > section. Now, when I do this I get a blank new section with no bars. I > > can't add bars to the new section. I can't add a new "layout" either, > whatever that is. Is a layout a section? I don't get it. When I add a > new "layout", I end up with a duplicate of the one before it. > > As I understand it, this version produces a song file format that is > not compatible with earlier versions. Do I need to grab the current > release and start over? > > I find this confounding User Interface very frustrating. > > It's killed my inspiration for today. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Zygoat Doggiebox discussion list - <http://www.doggiebox.com> > To unsubscribe, view archives or change your options: > <http://lists.zygoat.ca/mailman/listinfo/doggiebox> > > > ***************************************************************** > Denne fotnoten bekrefter at denne e-postmeldingen ble > skannet av MailSweeper og funnet fri for virus. > ***************************************************************** > This footnote confirms that this email message has been swept by > MailSweeper for the presence of computer viruses. > ***************************************************************** >

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RE: [Doggiebox] Frustrated
by Tor Lillegraven 29 Feb '04

29 Feb '04

Hi Mike I saw your mail earlier today, and was considering "warning" you about the new build. I guess you found out for yourself :-P The new editors are hardly very intuitive -- but one I got it worked out, it seemed like a good idea -- being able to just "repeat" various parts throughout the song using scripting, rather than having to cut and paste you way through the song. I guess u make up the various parts of the song in the section editor -- verse, chorus, etc -- and then actually build them (add drums) in the layout editor. Next step is to deciede the running order of the song in the layout editor: verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bride chorus x 2 or whatever. But as I got into it, I got frustrated because as I was making changes to a part of the song, the change would be global. To me, working like this gets confusing, because I tend to put in different fills between parts. this is very tricky to do in the new version -- you end up having to make verse 1,2,3,4 and chorus 1,2,3,4... this is a logistical nightmare -- just cutting and pasting like I did in the pervios build seemed so much easier... but maybe I`m not doing this right... also: the section arent very clearly marked when you show "all" in the layout sections. Some kind of color coding or something to that effect would be very helpful. >Tor >>> Mike Carlyle <mcarlyle(a)charter.net> 29.02.2004 18:01:36 >>> I'm completely stumped by version 1.1B (build 3)'s section editor and layout editor. I get the fact that I can choose sections for playback and that is helpful, but it is offset by the fact that I can no longer add sections or insert bars. Previously, I could highlight some bars, choose "new section" in the section area down on the left, and my selected bars became a new section. Now, when I do this I get a blank new section with no bars. I can't add bars to the new section. I can't add a new "layout" either, whatever that is. Is a layout a section? I don't get it. When I add a new "layout", I end up with a duplicate of the one before it. As I understand it, this version produces a song file format that is not compatible with earlier versions. Do I need to grab the current release and start over? I find this confounding User Interface very frustrating. It's killed my inspiration for today. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Zygoat Doggiebox discussion list - <http://www.doggiebox.com> To unsubscribe, view archives or change your options: <http://lists.zygoat.ca/mailman/listinfo/doggiebox> ***************************************************************** Denne fotnoten bekrefter at denne e-postmeldingen ble skannet av MailSweeper og funnet fri for virus. ***************************************************************** This footnote confirms that this email message has been swept by MailSweeper for the presence of computer viruses. *****************************************************************

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Current beta stability?
by Mike Carlyle 29 Feb '04

29 Feb '04

I'm certainly aware of the perils of using beta software, but I was hoping to hear a brief summary of any possible issues with DB 1.1B. I'm about to begin a new project and will be investing a lot of time in programming drums. Should I worry? I remember a list of potential issues, but in weeding through my old emails, I'm afraid I may be missing some.

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Re: Doggiebox Digest, Vol 8, Issue 15
by Mike Listrom 25 Feb '04

25 Feb '04

On Feb 25, 2004, at 12:00 PM, doggiebox-request(a)lists.zygoat.ca wrote: > Send Doggiebox mailing list submissions to > doggiebox(a)lists.zygoat.ca > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.zygoat.ca/mailman/listinfo/doggiebox > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > doggiebox-request(a)lists.zygoat.ca > > You can reach the person managing the list at > doggiebox-owner(a)lists.zygoat.ca > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Doggiebox digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Separate exports (Ben Kennedy) > 2. Re: Some other ideas (Ben Kennedy) > 3. Using GarageBand samples to build dbkits (Bret Van Horn) > 4. Re: Using GarageBand samples to build dbkits (Ben Kennedy) > 5. Re: Using GarageBand samples to build dbkits (Christoph) > 6. Re: Using GarageBand samples to build dbkits (andrew kator) > 7. Re: Using GarageBand samples to build dbkits (Patrick O'Donoghue) > 8. Re: Using GarageBand samples to build dbkits (Bret Van Horn) > 9. Re: Using GarageBand samples to build dbkits (Bret Van Horn) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:02:04 -0500 > From: "Ben Kennedy" <ben(a)zygoat.ca> > Subject: Re: [Doggiebox] Separate exports > To: "Doggiebox List(s)" <doggiebox(a)lists.zygoat.ca> > Message-ID: <20040224220204.1557@balsam> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > On 22 2 2004 at 7:32 pm -0500, Mike Carlyle wrote: > >> This is high on my list too. I think it's at least ON a list right >> now, >> right Ben? > > Yep. It'll happen. Eventually. ;) > > -ben > > -- > Ben Kennedy, chief magician > zygoat creative technical services > 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 > http://www.zygoat.ca > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:08:27 -0500 > From: "Ben Kennedy" <ben(a)zygoat.ca> > Subject: Re: [Doggiebox] Some other ideas > To: "Doggiebox List(s)" <doggiebox(a)lists.zygoat.ca> > Message-ID: <20040224220827.13966@balsam> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > On 22 2 2004 at 7:47 pm -0500, Mike Listrom wrote: > >> Another idea I have would be scriptable songs. [...] >> I would also like to see programmable tasks [...] > > Interesting ideas. So essentially, Applescript'ability. I'll add that > to the wish list. for sure... > >> Also; integrating everything into a singe-window-interface is a bad >> idea. I feel that floating windows achieve greater flexibility for >> people that use multiple monitors, or people without enough monitor >> space for all of the tools to be displayed at a time. > > Which components would you put in floating windows? The drum kit > palette > is an obvious one I guess. Anything else? Too many floaters would > confuse things though I think. I think that the section markers, the scrubbing tool (timeline tool), the instrument pallet should be separate from the main the section viewer. To bring down confusion (to many windows), possibly integrate the time information section with the section marking tools, or perhaps group things in a more human user natural map. I great book to help give insight in to this is "the design of everyday things". I would try to approach the interface as you would a physical product. Visual cues should give insight to the user where things should be. This might require user-ended research. The less text and more visual cues you can give, the better. I would really suggest reading chapters 4-5 in the book I mentioned above. You will benefit TREMENDOUSLY from this information. > >> â¢ Basic viewing and listening to different sections: >> - need to scrub easily through song, perhaps implement some scrubbing >> window > > Yeah, this will be improved eventually, including such basic things as > "play from cursor", etc. yeah, that should be really helpful > >> â¢ editing >> -quick keys for setting up tools to modify and create beats within a >> section, this would closely tie into the scrubbing window for quick >> access to the desired section. > > Can you elaborate on this? I would like to see some keys that would quickly allow you to I guess change work flow. I am not sure exactly what I think could be the best method of describing this, let me get back to u all on this. :) > >> Also! possible export into formal stave notation? > > That could be a doozy. It would require a lot of work and research > which > is kind of orthoganal to the main functions of the app, and which other > commercial tools do pretty well. It would be neat, but unless another > developer would like to take charge of it, I don't see it happening in > the immediate term. yeah, just a thought.

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Using GarageBand samples to build dbkits
by Bret Van Horn 25 Feb '04

25 Feb '04

Not sure if this has been posted yet (not to my knowledge at leas), so apologies if it's redundant info: So I finally got GarageBand last week and had a small amount of time to play with it. It's a very intuitive and flexible tool for mocking up song ideas, and I suppose you could take it as far as you wanted to if you had the time. At the same time, while I liked the quality of GB's drum samples, I didn't like the inflexibility of the drum sequencing. So I started to think that perhaps they are using a drum sequencer of their own design, since beats can be slowed down or sped up without any effect of sound quality. This would mean they probably have some sample files laying around somewhere that just might be importable to, er, other applications. After some poking around, I hit the mother-load and discovered the directory containing all of the instrument samples in AIFF format, all ready for Doggiebox. Of course, I should caution this with the usual disclaimers and questions as to the legality of using Apple's samples in Doggiebox, but I also can't see how it would hurt, as you are essentially doing with them what you would do in GarageBand. At any rate, the kind folks at Apple have recorded the drum samples at various velocities, hit styles, and volumes, which lends itself perfectly to making new kits with Doggiebox. Basically, the samples all live in: /Library/Application Support/GarageBand/Instrument Library/Sampler/Sampler Files/ In there anything ending with the word "Kit" is a drum kit. File names are prepended with the initials for that particular drum tool. I.E., BD for bass drum, HH for hi-hat, SD for snare, CR for crash, etc. Just open up Doggiebox, create a new kit, and go to town. Have fun! On a related topic, if you want to use GarageBand's midi capabilities for simple midi parts and don't own a midi keyboard, I found this app which lets your computer keyboard function as a midi input device. Pretty slick: http://www.manyetas.com/creed/midikeys_beta.html Not used it yet, but looks promising for my needs. -Bret

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Re: [Doggiebox] Using GarageBand samples to build dbkits
by Patrick O'Donoghue 25 Feb '04

25 Feb '04

Question here regarding creating a new kit: I've been a DB user, but have never created a new kit myself....so.... I found the GarageBand drum kit files (as mentioned in a previous post); I opened up "New drum Kit" in Doggiebox...but, how do I actually get the GargaeBand files to show up in the Doggiebox "New Drum Kit" dialogue...???? ----Original Message Follows---- From: Christoph <hermiteer(a)itsallconnected.com> To: Ben Kennedy <ben(a)zygoat.ca>, Doggiebox <doggiebox(a)lists.zygoat.ca> Subject: Re: [Doggiebox] Using GarageBand samples to build dbkits Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:41:06 -0800 >> After some poking around, I hit the mother-load and discovered the >> directory containing all of the instrument samples in AIFF format, all >> ready for Doggiebox. > > Thanks for this, Bret. No kidding, thanks Bret. I had been wondering this myself but haven't had enough time to play with GB much. But knowing this now, I feel justified that iLife is at least 2 gigs of excellent samples to use with DB :) Cheers, Christoph ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Zygoat Doggiebox discussion list - <http://www.doggiebox.com> To unsubscribe, view archives or change your options: <http://lists.zygoat.ca/mailman/listinfo/doggiebox> _________________________________________________________________ Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage 4 plans to choose from! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/

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Re: Doggiebox Digest, Vol 8, Issue 12
by Mike Listrom 24 Feb '04

24 Feb '04

Another idea I have would be scriptable songs. This would allow the composer to set repeated bars, repeated sections, change the b.p.m. on the fly, to allow even more complex arrangements. I would also like to see programmable tasks to allow the user to script actions he uses most, such as setting up a song at 120 bpm with for bars in 7/8. This would be great for teaching applications. Also; integrating everything into a singe-window-interface is a bad idea. I feel that floating windows achieve greater flexibility for people that use multiple monitors, or people without enough monitor space for all of the tools to be displayed at a time.

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