- Doggiebox - lists.zygoat.ca

Doggiebox build 1A3 available!
by Ben Kennedy 30 Oct '02

30 Oct '02

Hi Mac drummers, A new build of Doggiebox is out! Grab it now at http://www.zygoat.ca/products/doggiebox/download/ New changes in build 1A3 (a.k.a. version 1.0c): - vastly optimized display mechanisms in the pattern editor, so that responsiveness to mouse tracking and clicking is markedly improved. - fixed problems using 3/8, 5/8 time signatures. - improved control over tempo specification; it is now possible to specify the tempo in terms of any base note value via a pop-up menu in the bar properties dialog. - improved zooming function so that it's now possible to add and modify triplets within individual beat positions simply by zooming in. - fixed bug where the drum info controls in the Drum Kit Editor would sometimes be greyed out, in particular after adding a new drum. - up and down cursor keys now move the insertion point to the beginning and end of song, respectively. - fixed cosmetic issue where bar numbers of 100 or greater were truncated (only the first two digits would appear). - fixed some major memory leaks which would sometimes result in memory used by drum kits and songs not to be deallocated when a song was closed. - improved error handling when opening corrupt files or those that are created with subsequent (too-new) versions of Doggiebox. There is STILL no playback position indicator, but I promise it will be in the next release! Given various circumstances I have decided to release this build now, rather than delay things possibly by several more days or a week. Playback indicator was going to be a principal goal, but I became sidetracked in (and totally consumed with) overhauling lots of the display and internal storage in the process, resulting in the huge increase in UI responsiveness that I think you will appreciate in the interim. As usual, please report any bugs, ideas, etc. (Please note also that the documentation hasn't been updated yet to reflect recent changes, but you should be able to figure it out.) -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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Memory leak?
by Ben Kennedy 23 Oct '02

23 Oct '02

Hi all, I've discovered a rather serious memory leak in DB that seems to occur whenever a drum icon is rendered -- be it the display refreshing, or the cursor changing. I see this phenomenon even with build 1A1, running on OS 10.2. What I would like to know is whether any of you using 10.1 (not 10.2) also can reproduce this; in other words, I want to determine whether this is a bug related to 10.2, or a problem with my own code. Here's how to test: 1. open a Terminal window, and type "top" (press return). This will display a list of running processes, and various statistics, in the window, and will refresh periodically (every few seconds). 2. launch Doggiebox, and open a song that contains at least one bar. 3. position the song window such that you are able to see the Terminal window at the same time. 4. keep your eye on the number beside Doggiebox (which should now be listed in the "top" display) under the right-most column labeled "VSIZE". 5. click around in the doggiebox window, adding and deleting drums. Press and release the command key repeatedly to switch the cursor between drum icons. I find that consistently as I do this, the VSIZE keeps increasing. In fact, just switching between apps (sending Doggiebox to the background and vice versa) seems to leak several MB. Does this happen under 10.1? can anyone else NOT reproduce this? thanks, -b -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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When?
by Mike Listrom 22 Oct '02

22 Oct '02

When will the next build be available? -- ---------------------------------- B R A D F I E L D http://www.bradfieldband.com ----------------------------------

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doggie UI speed improvement
by Ben Kennedy 22 Oct '02

22 Oct '02

On 11,10,02 at 11:07 pm -0400, Joe Chellman wrote: >So, I downloaded it again and gave it another try. It seems to slow >down as the number of notes increases. The blue background tracks >pretty well, though. It's not perfect, but it's pretty good. > >If I make two bars of 4/4 and expand them to hold 16 sixteenth notes >each, and fill each measure up with hihat notes, everything else slows >down noticably. It doesn't start slow, but it does get noticably >slower the more notes I put in. Hi Joe, Good news... I've spent the last couple of days optimizing the pattern editor display mechanisms, and I've been able to make some *major* improvements to the responsiveness of the UI. In essence, it's about to the point where scrolling, tracking and clicking will be immediate, and no longer influenced by the complexity of the score. Stay tuned for the next build, hopefully within the next couple of days. Also coming are improved time signature support and more refined tempo control; right now I'm working on a playback indicator, which I can't put off any longer! Thanks for your observations, it's been a great help. -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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Recording your drums to disk
by Ben Kennedy 01 Oct '02

01 Oct '02

Hey all, I saw a new utility posted to VersionTracker this morning: Audio Hijack... it lets you steal the audio output from *any* app, and not only save it to disk, but also apply real-time effects (reverb, echo, EQ, even use VST plugins)... check it out: <http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=16382&db=mac> Using Audio Hijack, it should be possible to export Doggiebox sounds to AIFF now, while you're waiting for me to get native support done. :) -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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weird bug?
by ellem 27 Sep '02

27 Sep '02

I have been trying to do a whole song (I Got You -- Split Enz) and when i got to 100 bars DoggieBox displays 10, 10 ,10... 11, 11 11... etc -- Lou Moran http://ellem.dyn.dhs.org:5281/resume/lmoran2002.html

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delay?
by Max van Essen 17 Sep '02

17 Sep '02

hey is notice a short delay when using the kick drum... you can hear it pretty good when you have like 8 hi hats in a bar, and you put in a kick drum, its has a very short delay.. is it the sound file or a little flaw?? max

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Re: [doggiebox] Doggiebox 1A2 posted!
by Ben Kennedy 16 Sep '02

16 Sep '02

On 15.09.2002 at 2:46 pm -0400, J. Compere wrote: >...you've probably already heard this, but DB seems to work just fine in >10.1.5 -- one nagging question (for me) remains -- one thing I really want >to do is import my own sound fragments to DB, but... I can't figure out how >to do that -- the manual has an "edit sound" section, but it doesn't quite >say how -- sorry to be so dense, but are there possibly instructions posted >somewhere on how to do this? Thanks for a great program -- jack Hi Jack, No, there are no good instructions available yet. :/ (Still haven't written that part of the manual). Here is a brief run-down, which maybe someone else on the mailing list can supplement: - start by creating a new drum kit; I'd suggest duplicating "ben's premier kit.dbkit" in the finder, renaming it to something new ("jack's drums.dbkit"), then Open that file in Doggiebox. - you'll see a "drum kit editor" document window (not the same as the song editor that you are already familiar with). - choose an existing drum variant from the scrolling list, then use the controls under "instrument details" to select a new sound, rename it, choose the icon, etc. - to add a new sound to the kit, click "add new drum", then do the same. Crash course, hopefully will point you in the right direction...? :) -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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Doggiebox 1A2 posted!
by Ben Kennedy 12 Sep '02

12 Sep '02

Greetings all, I'm pleased to mention that after a painfully lengthy delay, build 1A2 of Doggiebox is finally packaged up and posted for your consumption! New changes in build 1A2: - stereo panning for drum sounds now supported, along with a wider range of input file formats (AIFF, WAV, VOC, AU, IFF, PAF, SF, W64). This comes as part of a significant re-implementation of the audio subsystem which will continue to evolve over the next several builds. Note: you will need to re-import custom sounds into your drum kits; see included release notes. - no longer skips beats during playback under Mac OS 10.2 (when using new/updated drum kits). - bug fixed where preferences dialog would crash upon dismissal. - insertion point now follows pastes (moves to after the last pasted bar). I have not yet posted an announcement to the mainstream outlets (versiontracker, news sites, announcement list, etc) yet -- those of you on this discussion list get first peek. :) In addition to the usual feedback I would appreciate if you could confirm a couple of things: - that the app still runs as expected if you are still using OS 10.1 - that the app runs smoothly if you are using OS 10.2 (which I am now) - that the release notes are clear enough with respect to upgrading custom drum kit files to support the new code Regarding the last point, read the release notes (included) for full details. The issue is one that should only concern people who have made their own drum kits using build 1A1. (I'm not sure what percentage of the user base this affects, so it will be interesting to see whether this is a big deal.) Grab it all now at: http://www.zygoat.ca/products/doggiebox/distribution/Doggiebox-1A2.sit -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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New version
by Max van Essen 11 Sep '02

11 Sep '02

hey just wondering, when will the new version come out? im on 10.2 right now and doggiebox skips beats very bad, so im really looking forward to a new version... max

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10.1 vs 10.2
by Ben Kennedy 28 Aug '02

28 Aug '02

Hey all, I haven't upgraded to 10.2 yet, though I probably will be doing so in the next few days (provided my local shop isn't all sold out...) I'm wondering if there is anyone who plans NOT to upgrade in the near future, but instead stick with 10.1 for awhile. I would like to maintain compatibility with 10.1 as much as possible, but if I upgarde my development box to 10.2 it will be tougher to ensure this without having some testers who still use 10.1. Another option is for me to leave one of my computers (e.g. iBook) with 10.1, but frankly I would prefer to upgrade them both to squeeze some more raw speed out of them... so if any of you will be keeping 10.1 for awhile and would like to be the "10.1 compatibility testing ground", that would be good to know. :) -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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share your creations
by maxve＠mac.com 28 Aug '02

28 Aug '02

hi all, just downloaded the app 2 days ago, i really like it... just an idea for your site: let people share there creations, i drummed out about a girl from nirvana and it would be great if you have a place on your site where i can upload the file and share with you all... just an idea... max

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Another idea
by Ryk Groetchen 02 Aug '02

02 Aug '02

Howdy, I've been having fun with db. Thanks again. Another idea, if it's possible, would be the ability to input beats in real time, say, to choose one voice and then be able to click or touch a letter key while a click track keeps time. I remember this feature from the old Linndrum machines. You could set it to either 'snap to grid', so to speak, putting the beats into the nearest chosen subdivision (the 'quantize' feature) or set it to allow the beats to play exactly as they are entered in real time. Hey, maybe you could assign voices to different letter keys, so as to be able to input more than one sound at a time, in real time. Possible? Keep up the good work. Ryk A. Groetchen windrag(a)earthlink.net

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Nice 1
by Pascal Barras 01 Aug '02

01 Aug '02

This is great! A decent rhythm program that combines ease of use and advanced creative control is long overdue. Cheers, mate! I haven't been able to spend a good long spell with this yet, but a few points do come to mind off the bat which go towards 'ease of use'. I think some are variants of what has been said before, but what the hell.... 1) Some sort of roll function. I haven't been able to get drums or cymbals in quick succession to sound 'right'. Along the same lines, what about a flan (I think that is what it is called - a quick double hit at the beginning of a roll) function? Would some sort of accent feature be possible, similar to that on the BOSS DR-5? Apart from the mechanical quality of quickly-repeated hits, the lack of variation in the intensity of the hits is another give-away that the sound is not 'live'. 2) A cut-off for open hi-hats/rides/crashes so that they don't bleed into the next hit. Maybe also a pedal hi-hat as that seems to be one way of choking an open sound? 3) Volume control. Multiple samples per instrument are a pain to produce, but is there a way of incorporating them into a slider function for the individual instruments? Once the export to AIFF function comes along, volume can be altered after importing a file for each instrument into a sequencer, but this won't address the issue of the variations in sound - and it would be rather laborious. On the same topic, what about a volume swell/decrease function applicable to all instruments over a given period of beats? The ability to draw the increase/decrease with the mouse would be great. 4) Given that one of the features of db is the ability to edit sounds, would a web-based library of user sounds be possible? This might reduce the burden of programming by allowing users access to sound variations which mimic a certain function of the software - ie. accents, etc. That said, I admit to not knowing exactly what is possible with the drum editor. This idea comes from the page that Johnson has for J-Station user patches. 5) Not exactly 'ease of use', but... panning - so that the instruments can be placed anywhere in a stereo field to replicate the spread of a drum kit. Keep up the good work and thanks again for giving us the chance to offer comments on a very good program! Cheers, Pascal

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Speech recognition
by Ben Kennedy 21 Jul '02

21 Jul '02

Hey all, Donut you think it would be cool if you could yell into a microphone, "doggie play, doggie rewind 3 bars, doggie slow down"? But don't worry, AIFF export is coming first... :) -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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Re: Doggiebox 1A1 feedback
by Ben Kennedy 20 Jul '02

20 Jul '02

On 20,07,02 at 10:20 am -0400, Tom Christy wrote: >1. I can't save a default drum kit in the preferences. When I try, the >program crashes. This is a known bug that is fixed for the next build. As a workaround, simply close the window using the 'close box' in the upper-left corner, instead of hitting 'OK'. >2. The program needs to handle uneven time signatures. I tried entering 7/8 >and was shown measures containing 3 beats per measure. I tried expanding the >measures and ended up with 9 beats per measure. Good point, I haven't spent much time testing/working with odd-numbered time signatures. Thanks for pointing this out. -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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Thanks and ?
by Ryk Groetchen 20 Jul '02

20 Jul '02

Thanks for letting us in on the development process. Having lots of fun so far. As far as the voice recognition goes, I do most of my work with db at night when everyone else is asleep, with headphones. Part of the appeal of this product is that I can be musical at times when the housemates/neighbors wouldn't take kindly to a lot of sound coming out of my space. I for one would probably never use it. Also db is sometimes running with another sound source going at the same time, and I would think this would cause some interference. Maybe just for the ego bit of having something respond to the voice command...? Save the energy. Also, I have figured out how to import sounds into the kit, but don't know how to import an icon. What kind of file does the icon feature want? Thanks again, and keep up the good work. Ryk A. Groetchen windrag(a)earthlink.net

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Some things I like to see
by ellem 13 Jul '02

13 Jul '02

Great, great, great product. I love this thing! I wish I could play back sections, for when I make changes or want to hear what I've just put down. I usually have two editors open so that I can copy and paste but that is a little clunky. I wish there was a playback indicator, a line or something. Finally I wish that there was a way to express two sticks on one drum for volume and tempo. Two sticks on a floor tom sound different than one and I can't seem to make a decent drum roll _or_ a high hat run like "Run To The Hills" Also I seem to need to do everything in 12/8 which is a little weird, or maybe I'm avant garde, tough to say:) Again awesome product. -- Lou Moran http://ellem.dyn.dhs.org:5281/resume/lmoran2002.html

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Customizing drum kits - keep your samples
by Ben Kennedy 08 Jul '02

08 Jul '02

Hey all, Here's just a heads-up for those of you playing around with custom drum kits: Make sure you keep on hand the original sound samples that you're importing in as drum sounds, i.e., your source AIFF files. The drum kit file format is going to have to change in order to accommodate some new audio substructure, and unfortunately due to the current design, it seems it will not be possible to convert drum sounds to the new format. (the structure of the drum kits will be preserved, but you will need to re- import all sounds for the drum variants). Technical explanation of interest to developers: currently, doggiebox relies on cocoa's NSSound class for storing and playing back audio. This is somewhat crude, but was a simple way to get a jump on things. I am currently working on a more low-level implementation, using libsndfile and CoreAudio routines which will provide full flexibility in import/ export/manipulation and future expansion. However, although NSSound can import existing files, it provides no means to export a contained sound. Therefore it appears I will not be able to automate the conversion of sounds saved within an existing drum kit file. In other words: in an upcoming build (maybe the next one, or maybe not, depending how progress goes), you will need to re-construct any custom drum kits by re-importing the sound files they use. Following that, you should never need to do so again. :) -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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Re: on dog
by Ben Kennedy 28 Jun '02

28 Jun '02

On 28,06,02 at 1:39 pm -0400, peepniks(a)mac.com wrote: >your kit is cool. >it's a nice departure from the slick kits i'm always working with. >i mean that in the best way. >i'll have to submit a real smacky kit for the instant pop songsters out >there. thanks... heh, yeah I know what you mean. 8) >> I think I will implement a preferences option to make this the default >> behaviour. It is not the initial default, however, because I suspected >> that such "smartness" would confuse a new user trying to understand the >> relationship between the editor and the selection in the drum kit list. > >not to debate with the creator. but... >i don't think auto-select by default is counter intuitive at all. >it falls in line with auto erase features of simple graphics programs et. >al. That's true, I tend to agree with you... however, when I showed the app to a friend a couple of weeks ago and he began to click around, he seemed to be confused by what was going on. Of course, the docs weren't written by that point, so perhaps if the auto-select behaviour is the default, and you've had the opportunity to read the docs and understand the idea/ function behind the grid and grouping layout, it might make perfect sense. hmm. >like a hardcore lab tester i have to submit some knit picking. >i'd say that the option to select more subdivisions leaves something to be >desired. >probably something i'd like to see as a button in the editor itself. You're talking about the expand/collapse (zoom) function yes? So maybe a pair of "-"/"+" buttons next to the pattern editor is what you're after? Sounds like a good idea. I was in the habit of using the command-minus and command-plus on the keyboard, but at first such operation is not obvious. >consecutive clicks over a single grid point would cycle through >that individual instruments variables. >e.g. - one click = closed hat, two clicks = mid hats, three clicks = >open hats Yeah, I agree with you fully, that's probably the way to do it. I was also thinking a context-popup that would list variants for the current drum, but toggling though would likely be faster and easier. What about erasing? click = closed hat, click = open hat, click = nothing? That would leave the behaviour consistent with drums that have only one variant. Another option is to have e.g. option-click erase the drum, but then the behaviour would be counter-intuitive for one-variant drums (e.g. bass drum: click = normal bass drum, click = ...normal bass drum again, bad) >16th notes in a 6 figure with 12 grid seperations >had me straining my eyes. >none of that's your fault though. >i'm just yacking now. Yes I know what you mean... As should be evident from the time signature support, I *do* want to make the interface as visually usable (and consistent with normal musical theory) as possible, so suggestions to improve this kind of thing are welcome. -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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Re: [doggiebox] ideas...
by Ben Kennedy 28 Jun '02

28 Jun '02

On 28,06,02 at 1:10 pm -0400, mahakk wrote: >i must admid that the image i had in mind of a "volume control >during the mix" was one of these midi-sequencers, where you >adjust a small line. this wouldn't work with your app because it >would require one line for each instrument. and then i thought >of "ctrl-click" to be perfect for switching the instument's >variants... well <g>. Yeah, that's a good idea. Somebody suggested that repeatedly clicking on a beat subdiv could cycle through the variants (e.g. click = closed hi hat, click = open hi hat) which might be the ticket. Then option-click could immediately erase, or something. >what about some sort of song-position-pointer? >i'm not talking about one of those thin lines here, but rather >some sort of background-color, which "pulsates". get me? this >doesn't even have to be behind the actual instruments, but a >small row of itself. like these old drummachines... dunno. Fill me in, can you describe what you mean in more detail?... are you talking eye-candy here, or a playback-position-indicator (which is something sorely needed, I agree)? -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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workaround for prefs dialog crash
by Ben Kennedy 28 Jun '02

28 Jun '02

Hey all, The reproducible crash when closing the preferences window is fixed for the next build. In the mean time, you can work around this (while still saving your choice of drum kit) by closing the prefs window via the window close button in the upper-left corner, instead of pressing the OK or Cancel buttons. -ben -- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca

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RE: [doggiebox] Re: wishes
by Kirks, Steven 28 Jun '02

28 Jun '02

> >- colors for instruments > >- play preview in Finder while loading samples > > good ideas, thanks. Add to that a "playback indicator". A moving line that shows what instrument is playing as it happens. > >- multirow > > This is something I want to solicit opinions on: I've > thought about this > as well, but I'm not sure the best way to implement it, or > whether it's > even a great idea. There are some issues with a multi-row > editor, since > the sizes of patterns (etc) are always variable. Tough call. Why not make it multirow, but with three or four measures per row, like most written music. Scrolling takes you up and down *per row* so you are never stuck between rows. What about paying for this? Have you thought about Kagi? http://faq.kagi.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/ViewFAQs.woa/wa/DirectAction?FAQListi ng=NewVend

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RE: [doggiebox] Guitar Port, Triggers and Bears, Oh My!
by Kirks, Steven 28 Jun '02

28 Jun '02

GuitarPort: http://www.line6.com/guitarport/index.html >WHat's the interface; is it midi? or some kind of serial thing, or...? It uses a USB interface...

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Guitar Port, Triggers and Bears, Oh My!
by Kirks, Steven 28 Jun '02

28 Jun '02

Ben: >No problem, I'm really pleased so far how many people are digging it too! >(especially since I started writing it for my own personal use in >recording guitar and stuff) I've been toying with the idea of buying a product from Line6 called GuitarPort. When I saw your software, it reminded me of the concept of using a computer as an effects processor for an instrument. I've got a Mapex Venus kit that I'd like to add triggers and use as a combination acoustic/electronic kit. If Doggiebox would take the trigger inputs... :> Have you thought about opening up the program a little to allow for plugins? I'm thinking that "someone" could write a plugin that would take MIDI in and create the appropriate drum parts, sticking, or even build lessons. Pie in the sky stuff, I know... Enthusiastically, Steve Kirks (from work email address)

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