Mike Carlyle wrote:
I assumed you were using a Mac for recording as well as DB'ing (that's right, it's now a verb)
Verbing trends words! :)
No, my Mac is an audio generator but not a recorder. And I don't see that changing anytime soon, since I would need to invest a healthy chunk of money that I don't have to get reasonable audio inputs into the Mac and probably a semi-decent multi-track recording app. And probably actually a lot more money to get a machine better suited to the task than an iBook, and a big old monitor to keep an eye on what's going one with my different tracks without going blind ;)
So all my recording is to my offboard deck, picking up whatever I send it over analog audio connections :)
I'd probably make use of groups from time to time, but I still maintain that the ability to get individual output should at least be an option.
Agreed! Though if one can configure groups, I would imagine that one could configure single instrument (or sample) "groups" as well as multiple instrument groups.
BTW, complete non-sequitur: What are DBing guitarists using for home recording? I've done my one posted project with DB drums using the built in amp sims in my Roland VS-1680 recording module since my apt. is currently too small to keep my old 50w Laney combo in the office/studio/bedroom -- and though that turned out OK, it's not the most flexible thing in the world. I've been considering going down the road of something like a V-Amp (maybe the Bass V-Amp, since it has has both guitar and bass amp simulators) that would in theory give me a bunch of amp toys in a small, quiet package, though I understand you can't really stick extra outboard effects (like my pile of old stompboxes) in an effects loop like you can with a normal guitar amp, which is a bit lame, IMO. Anyone have a compact, flexible solution they like? I don't really want to go with a Mac-based solution because of the difficulty of getting audio into my iBook! (I don't want to turn the DB list into a home-recording list, but I did figure some folks here might have some thoughts on these issues. Y'all can mail me off-list if that would be better!).
Cheers, Carl
On Tuesday, April 27, 2004, at 06:30 AM, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote:
BTW, complete non-sequitur: What are DBing guitarists using for home recording?
I'm using a whole bunch of different things but, to answer the question from a guitar amp point of view, I'd wholeheartedly recommend anyone looking to check out a Tech 21 Trademark 10. It's what I used to do the little ditty on the Doggiebox website that became one of the "demo songs". The TM 10 has SansAmp direct box technology built in, it's all analog, no computer chips inside (no tubes either).
It's affordable. They're usually available on ebay for less than 200 bucks. I got mine in mint condition for 180 (ebay). In addition to that, I will always keep my Marshall Studio 15 alive and kickin' so that I can mic it when I want that really authentic, woody, open, guitar sound. This amp can do a better clean than a Fender, while still retaining the Plexi era, rippin' Marshall sound that has become a classic. This is a 15 watt single channel tube amp with a 12" Celestion.
Oh, and I have a Fender Blues Jr. as well. I don't record with it much though.
<quote who="Mike Carlyle">
I'm using a whole bunch of different things but, to answer the question from a guitar amp point of view, I'd wholeheartedly recommend anyone looking to check out a Tech 21 Trademark 10.
I use the Trademark 10 too and I would recommend it as well. Thing sounds *dope* for it's size. IMHO, it's going get better results than a Behringer Vamp or Line 6 Pod or the like. And it's a real practice amp with an effects send/return.
Here's my setup: 1976 Gretsch Roc Jet, Fender P Bass reissue, Doggiebox, Mbox/ProTools LE, Powerbook G4 400 10.3 768MB RAM, 80GB 7200 RPM firewire drive.
I usually do something quick and *unpolished* just to seed the idea. Like this: http://www.fuzzylogical.com/rockstuff/newidea.mp3 I'll bring something like this over on CDs, then it gets worked out in practice. BTW, This is Mike Watson's "Tama Swingstar Kit" with a bit of stereo compression.
~ Corey
Corey Knafelz wrote:
I use the Trademark 10 too and I would recommend it as well. Thing sounds *dope* for it's size. IMHO, it's going get better results than a Behringer Vamp or Line 6 Pod or the like. And it's a real practice amp with an effects send/return.
I have the Trademark 120 and and Behringer V-Amp2 and the Trademark blows away the V-amp in terms of sound quality going direct to my MBox. However, I am using the Trademark for the band I just started to play with and am not as happy with it in a live situation. I think I need to monkey with the settings some more, but I do like the versatility a lot.
-Bret
<quote who="Bret Van Horn">
I have the Trademark 120 and and Behringer V-Amp2 and the Trademark blows away the V-amp in terms of sound quality going direct to my MBox. However, I am using the Trademark for the band I just started to play with and am not as happy with it in a live situation.
Yeah, I wouldn't use mine live either, probably not even if it were loud enough. I use a Wizard Vintage Classic Combo 50 watt tube amp on stage and for taped studio sessions. You'd think by now someone would have invented something that would sound better than 1920s vaccuum tube technology... but... nope.
Using a TM10 in a live situation is a real stretch. Although it's certainly possible, the TM60 is much better suited to this with it's "more power" and switchable channels.
On Tuesday, April 27, 2004, at 09:39 PM, Corey Knafelz wrote:
<quote who="Bret Van Horn">
I have the Trademark 120 and and Behringer V-Amp2 and the Trademark blows away the V-amp in terms of sound quality going direct to my MBox. However, I am using the Trademark for the band I just started to play with and am not as happy with it in a live situation.
Yeah, I wouldn't use mine live either, probably not even if it were loud enough. I use a Wizard Vintage Classic Combo 50 watt tube amp on stage and for taped studio sessions. You'd think by now someone would have invented something that would sound better than 1920s vaccuum tube technology... but... nope.
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Corey Knafelz wrote:
<quote who="Mike Carlyle"> >I'm using a whole bunch of different things but, to answer the question >from a guitar amp point of view, I'd wholeheartedly recommend anyone >looking to check out a Tech 21 Trademark 10.
I use the Trademark 10 too and I would recommend it as well. Thing sounds *dope* for it's size. IMHO, it's going get better results than a Behringer Vamp or Line 6 Pod or the like. And it's a real practice amp with an effects send/return.
Googling around, I see a lot of good stuff about the Trademark 10. though it's a bit pricey for me, and if I really wanted a guitar combo solution, I've already got my Laney 50w.
Still, Trademark 10 reviews rapidly made me think I should perhaps be checking out a SansAmp GT2 and SansAmp Bass Driver DI (I really love the sound of a big overdriven bass rig, from a Pappalardi to a Lemmy, but while I find a lot of decent guitar tones just plugging into things, getting a halfway decent bass sound without demolishing buildings seems to be a real bitch! For me, anyway ....)
Of course, the SansAmps are basically stomp boxes, and I guess all outboard effects would have to be in series, before or after, which leaves me about where I would be with the Bass V-amp (which would include pretty much everything I needs for guitar and bass in one package, barring the effects loop or questions of amp-sim quality). I see the SansAmp rack-units have effects loops, but that's again more money and space than I want to see eaten up!
Man, I'm relieved that I get such good results out of DoggieBox without the need for pricey gear :)
Cheers, Carl
On 28 4 2004 at 11:09 am -0400, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote:
Googling around, I see a lot of good stuff about the Trademark 10.
Yeah, you guys have put me onto this as well... may need to get my hands on one of these. :)
Mike, have you used the SansAmp at all (outside of the Trademark 10)? I wonder if it, direct into a PA or deck, would be comparable to what the TM10 offers.
getting a halfway decent bass sound without demolishing buildings seems to be a real bitch! For me, anyway ....)
I've gotten some fat-sounding bass in the past by putting it through a good old Electroharmonix Big Muff pedal with the tone turned most of the way down.
Having said that, I've generally been using my Nobels Bass Overdrive pedal with my guitar lately (tone turned most of the way up) since I find it to sound more "organically crunchier" than the Muff...
-b
On Wednesday, April 28, 2004, at 11:18 AM, Ben Kennedy wrote:
On 28 4 2004 at 11:09 am -0400, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote:
Googling around, I see a lot of good stuff about the Trademark 10.
Yeah, you guys have put me onto this as well... may need to get my hands on one of these. :)
Mike, have you used the SansAmp at all (outside of the Trademark 10)? I wonder if it, direct into a PA or deck, would be comparable to what the TM10 offers.
According to Tech 21, the Trademark 10 and the SansAmp direct box are identical to each other, technology-wise. I have not used the SansAmp DI, but... I guess that having used the TM10's direct output (as was done on the demo songs) qualifies me as having used it after all. I have gone direct out to a PA as well. It was a pretty great sounding, if one-dimensional, rig.
I'll have to try the BigMuff bass trick. I've had mine since 1974. I usually record bass (a '62 MIJ Fender Jazz) direct. It sounds fine to me.
getting a halfway decent bass sound without demolishing buildings seems to be a real bitch! For me, anyway ....)
I've gotten some fat-sounding bass in the past by putting it through a good old Electroharmonix Big Muff pedal with the tone turned most of the way down.
Having said that, I've generally been using my Nobels Bass Overdrive pedal with my guitar lately (tone turned most of the way up) since I find it to sound more "organically crunchier" than the Muff...
-b
-- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca
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Mike Carlyle wrote:
According to Tech 21, the Trademark 10 and the SansAmp direct box are identical to each other, technology-wise. I have not used the SansAmp DI, but... I guess that having used the TM10's direct output (as was done on the demo songs) qualifies me as having used it after all.
Well, I think I still need to keep the Bass V-amp under consideration, since it has a pile of both guitar and bass amp sims and clocks in at mere $140 from Musician's Friend. I would have to think bout whether the sound would be sufficiently better from a combination of SansAmp GT2 and Bass DI ($170 and $190 respectively to make costing 150% more (eek!) worthwhile. That could be tough sell on the home front ;) The press and online commentary for the Tech 21 stuff does make it seem rather better sonically than the V-amp (suggesting one may well get what one pays for here), but I think that route might not be practical for me unless I get at least a bit richer :P
Cheers, Carl
I hear ya on the economizing thing. I actually considered the Tech 21 I got a bargain at 180 dollars used. I didn't think it was all that much for what it brings to my tonal table.
Most of my guitars, on the other hand, are not on the higher end of the cost spectrum. My MIM 50's tele cost me four hundred bucks. I bought it on a frigid cold day in the parking lot at the Auburn, MA public library from an internet buddy that met me there.
My Strat cost me $279 at a local store. It's an MIM Standard. Works and sounds great. My bass also cost me four hundred and I bought that from a trusted bass playing friend.
I'm currently considering my most expensive music purchase ever, a Taylor acoustic.
On Thursday, April 29, 2004, at 08:03 AM, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote:
Mike Carlyle wrote:
According to Tech 21, the Trademark 10 and the SansAmp direct box are identical to each other, technology-wise. I have not used the SansAmp DI, but... I guess that having used the TM10's direct output (as was done on the demo songs) qualifies me as having used it after all.
Well, I think I still need to keep the Bass V-amp under consideration, since it has a pile of both guitar and bass amp sims and clocks in at mere $140 from Musician's Friend. I would have to think bout whether the sound would be sufficiently better from a combination of SansAmp GT2 and Bass DI ($170 and $190 respectively to make costing 150% more (eek!) worthwhile. That could be tough sell on the home front ;) The press and online commentary for the Tech 21 stuff does make it seem rather better sonically than the V-amp (suggesting one may well get what one pays for here), but I think that route might not be practical for me unless I get at least a bit richer :P
Cheers, Carl
-- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/
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Mike Carlyle wrote:
I hear ya on the economizing thing. I actually considered the Tech 21 I got a bargain at 180 dollars used. I didn't think it was all that much for what it brings to my tonal table. Most of my guitars, on the other hand, are not on the higher end of the cost spectrum. My MIM 50's tele cost me four hundred bucks. I bought it on a frigid cold day in the parking lot at the Auburn, MA public library from an internet buddy that met me there. My Strat cost me $279 at a local store. It's an MIM Standard. Works and sounds great. My bass also cost me four hundred and I bought that from a trusted bass playing friend. I'm currently considering my most expensive music purchase ever, a Taylor acoustic.
Well, I find that I had more money to spend on kit when I was a single-income single person than a single-income married person whose partner is taking expensive university courses ;) Ah, the joys of family life! Luckily, I bought my more expensive gear in my carefree and footloose bachelor days. Someday I hope to be in a dual-income household with a correspondingly higher toy allowance :)
Cheers, Carl
Carl Edlund Anderson wrote:
Well, I think I still need to keep the Bass V-amp under consideration, since it has a pile of both guitar and bass amp sims and clocks in at mere $140 from Musician's Friend. I would have to think bout whether the sound would be sufficiently better from a combination of SansAmp GT2 and Bass DI ($170 and $190 respectively to make costing 150% more (eek!) worthwhile.
Though I have to say: a quick hop to ebay.com shows GT2s going for _much_ less than list price (a few Bass DI's but rather closer to list price). I suppose I could go through PayPal and get 'em shipped to my parents in the US for pick up sometime :)
Cheers, Carl
On 30 4 2004 at 12:49 pm -0400, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote:
Though I have to say: a quick hop to ebay.com shows GT2s going for _much_ less than list price (a few Bass DI's but rather closer to list price). I suppose I could go through PayPal and get 'em shipped to my parents in the US for pick up sometime :)
Dunno if I was bidding against you Carl, but all this talk from you guys set me researching the Tech 21 stuff and I seem to have just won myself a GT2 (though I have yet to find out how much the seller wants to charge me for shipping to Canada...)
Yay toys. :) Hope it sounds good!
-b
On May 2, 2004, at 11:43 AM, Ben Kennedy wrote:
Dunno if I was bidding against you Carl, but all this talk from you guys set me researching the Tech 21 stuff and I seem to have just won myself a GT2 (though I have yet to find out how much the seller wants to charge me for shipping to Canada...)
...and the Evil Plan™ comes together.... high fives people!
On 02 5 2004 at 2:49 pm -0400, Corey Knafelz wrote:
...and the Evil Plan™ comes together.... high fives people!
WHat, do you own stock in tech21 or something? Were you bidding against me? huh? huh?? :)
-ben
On May 2, 2004, at 11:59 AM, Ben Kennedy wrote:
On 02 5 2004 at 2:49 pm -0400, Corey Knafelz wrote:
...and the Evil Plan™ comes together.... high fives people!
WHat, do you own stock in tech21 or something? Were you bidding against me? huh? huh?? :)
Bwoohhahahahahahahaha! Canadians... all conspiracy theorists!
Seriously, you'll dig it I'm sure. Makes for good sounds.
On 02 May 2004, at 19:43, Ben Kennedy wrote:
On 30 4 2004 at 12:49 pm -0400, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote:
Though I have to say: a quick hop to ebay.com shows GT2s going for _much_ less than list price (a few Bass DI's but rather closer to list price). I suppose I could go through PayPal and get 'em shipped to my parents in the US for pick up sometime :)
Dunno if I was bidding against you Carl, but all this talk from you guys set me researching the Tech 21 stuff and I seem to have just won myself a GT2 (though I have yet to find out how much the seller wants to charge me for shipping to Canada...)
Not against me! I was eyeing the current Ebay offerings, but there looks to be a reasonable stream of Tech 21 stuff, and I just spent all my money on tickets for us to visit my parents in NY. However, with a month or so before the trip, I'm hoping my finances will heal up enough to allow me to make a few Stateside acquisitions to pick up when I'm there :)
So I'd be interested to hear how the GT2 works out when you've wrestled it up to Canada.
Cheers, Carl
-- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/
Sorry for the off-topic post, but I managed to score a used Sansamp GT2 at a reasonable price (I had heard so much good stuff about Tech 21 stuff on the DB list that I had to give it a go!).
No manual, but most of it is pretty obvious, including taking the back off to fit the battery. But I see it also takes a DC power adapter; can anyone confirm what kind of adapter I would need? Just something that takes juice from the wall and turns it into 9 volt DC?
Cheers, Carl
All the doggiebox betas have been crashing on me. Is anyone else experiencing this? Just cruising along, then infinite spinning beach ball until force quit. I'm not experiencing this problem with any other applications on my powerbook.
*********************************** http://www.fuzzylogical.com
Corey Knafelz wrote:
All the doggiebox betas have been crashing on me. Is anyone else experiencing this? Just cruising along, then infinite spinning beach ball until force quit. I'm not experiencing this problem with any other applications on my powerbook.
I haven't had any crashes, though I'm running 1C7 the latest Panther update (whatever it is). It's sometimes a bit slow to load stuff, but that's probably because of the hefty size of the embedded ns_kit6 that I still tend to use on many things. Didn't even crash when losing audio output during my MMC/MTC tests.
Cheers, Carl, who _almost_ went crazy and splashed on a Sansamp Bass Driver on ebay until he realized prices there are _almost_ reaching those of a brand new box with warranty.
-
Ben Kennedy -
Bret Van Horn -
Carl Edlund Anderson -
Corey Knafelz -
Mike Carlyle