Hey folks,
After suffering various distractions the past several months, things are starting to get back on track with the Doggie. Please avail yourselves at http://www.doggiebox.com/distribution/Doggiebox-1E12.tbz of the latest build.
Continuing on trying to fix the recent edit/selection woes, I've again changed and hopefully improved semantics in the pattern editor to provide more versatile control over selecting, copying and pasting of both whole bars and drums within bars:
- Clicking in the header region of a bar will once again select the bar as a whole unit, for editing behaviour (cut, copy, paste) like in previous versions of Doggiebox. - Holding the Option key to click while mousing over the header region will produce the beat-selection cursor, allowing you to select and manipulate the drums of individual beat subdivisions without disrputing the song structure, like in recent beta builds. - In either mode, you can hold Shift to extend a selection or Command to make discontiguous selections.
Thank you everybody for your continuing input on this. I hope these changes improve both usability and flexibility; I'm looking forward to your feedback.
The Edit and Song menus have been slightly re-organized and some key shortcuts have been re-assigned (hint: look at the Edit menu and press Shift). Also, there's been some minor re-arrangement of the song window; in particular, the zoom buttons have moved to the floating inspector which I think make more sense.
Things of lesser note: Right- or control-clicking on a drum to change velocity no longer requires command key to be pressed. Added support for exporting to Apple CoreAudio File (CAF) format (courtesy of libsndfile 1.0.12). Also, fixed a few memory leaks.
-ben
Houston ,
we have a problem...
First thing I noticed is that the variations on the Drums are missing - no triangle to pick the different types of Snare etc....
On a positive note, I like the return to the fold of selecting complete bars by default - also, the new layout looks good.
Cheers
Charlie
On 06/12/2005, at 3:51 AM, Ben Kennedy wrote:
Hey folks,
After suffering various distractions the past several months, things are starting to get back on track with the Doggie. Please avail yourselves at http://www.doggiebox.com/distribution/Doggiebox-1E12.tbz of the latest build.
Continuing on trying to fix the recent edit/selection woes, I've again changed and hopefully improved semantics in the pattern editor to provide more versatile control over selecting, copying and pasting of both whole bars and drums within bars:
- Clicking in the header region of a bar will once again selectthe bar as a whole unit, for editing behaviour (cut, copy, paste) like in previous versions of Doggiebox. - Holding the Option key to click while mousing over the header region will produce the beat-selection cursor, allowing you to select and manipulate the drums of individual beat subdivisions without disrputing the song structure, like in recent beta builds. - In either mode, you can hold Shift to extend a selection or Command to make discontiguous selections.
Thank you everybody for your continuing input on this. I hope these changes improve both usability and flexibility; I'm looking forward to your feedback.
The Edit and Song menus have been slightly re-organized and some key shortcuts have been re-assigned (hint: look at the Edit menu and press Shift). Also, there's been some minor re-arrangement of the song window; in particular, the zoom buttons have moved to the floating inspector which I think make more sense.
Things of lesser note: Right- or control-clicking on a drum to change velocity no longer requires command key to be pressed. Added support for exporting to Apple CoreAudio File (CAF) format (courtesy of libsndfile 1.0.12). Also, fixed a few memory leaks.
-ben
-- Ben Kennedy, chief magician zygoat creative technical services 613-228-3392 | 1-866-466-4628 http://www.zygoat.ca
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Charlie wrote at 7:01 PM (+0800) on 12/6/05:
First thing I noticed is that the variations on the Drums are missing - no triangle to pick the different types of Snare etc....
Oh no, you're right! That's a bit of a problem. I've now fixed that for the next build. In the mean time, here is a fix for anyone who doesn't mind getting their hands only slightly dirty:
0. un-zip the file attached to this message (ZDBSongDocument.nib). 1. right-click on Doggiebox.app and choose Show Package Contents. 2. open the Contents folder. 3. open the Resources folder (inside Contents). 4. open the English.lproj folder (inside Resources). 5. drag the new ZDBSongDocument.nib which you unzipped into the English.lproj folder, replacing the original ZDBSongDocument.nib that's already there. 6. re-launch Doggiebox, and the variation triangle thingies should be back.
Thanks for pointing this out!
On a positive note, I like the return to the fold of selecting complete bars by default - also, the new layout looks good.
Cool, good to hear!
-ben
Ben Kennedy wrote at 11:46 AM (-0500) on 12/6/05:
- un-zip the file attached to this message (ZDBSongDocument.nib).
Apparently the attachment did not make it through to the list. I've uploaded it to here (it's only 24 KB in size):
http://www.doggiebox.com/distribution/1E12p1-ZDBSongDocument.nib.zip
sorry about that,
-ben
Ben,
I have a suggestion for DB Version 2. How about adding the ability to include an audio track?
My thinking is this.
1) I write a song
2) Create a Drum part and then add it to (in my case) Pro Tools.
3) I add guitars etc
4) I notice the drum part needs some frills etc.
5) Now the difficulties start. I have to edit the DB file without reference to the song itself. If I could import the song I have created in PT (less the drums) into DB I could play these together and get a much better feel for the drum part and how it would fit the song. I could see that is the second half of bar 18 in the bridge that needs a fill etc.... Instantly add it, play that bit again (with the audio) and see if it flies or not. Very much like MIDI editing, but using the nice friendly DB interface rather than the incredibly ugly MIDI screen lines.
At the moment, I have my guitar on my lap as I hit the space bar to listen to the drum part, edit it, try again, usually stuffing it up as I miss the start... (you can fill in the blanks here). When it's all done I need to import the new drum track into PT and see how it really sounds. To audition it in DB would remove a lot of this hassle.
The audio wouldn't need any editing abilities, just an import function and play/mute button. It would always play in correct time as it was recorded against the original DB file. The only weird bit would be starting the DB part at bar x and having the sound file know where to start.
Does any one else think this would be useful???
Cheers and a Happy New Year to all the DoggieBoxers out there.
Charlie
PS I suggested it as Version 2 as it would seem to be the sort of thing that a paid for update requires - if you want to add it to the current upgrades, go for it : - )
Charlie, Excellent idea!! I spend a lot of time editting in DB & importing in Cubase, listening, etc... This new feature would be a BIIIIG timesaver. A very efficient way to work with DB.
Mathieu
Charlie wrote:
Ben,
I have a suggestion for DB Version 2. How about adding the ability to include an audio track?
My thinking is this.
I write a song
Create a Drum part and then add it to (in my case) Pro Tools.
I add guitars etc
I notice the drum part needs some frills etc.
Now the difficulties start. I have to edit the DB file without
reference to the song itself. If I could import the song I have created in PT (less the drums) into DB I could play these together and get a much better feel for the drum part and how it would fit the song. I could see that is the second half of bar 18 in the bridge that needs a fill etc.... Instantly add it, play that bit again (with the audio) and see if it flies or not. Very much like MIDI editing, but using the nice friendly DB interface rather than the incredibly ugly MIDI screen lines.
At the moment, I have my guitar on my lap as I hit the space bar to listen to the drum part, edit it, try again, usually stuffing it up as I miss the start... (you can fill in the blanks here). When it's all done I need to import the new drum track into PT and see how it really sounds. To audition it in DB would remove a lot of this hassle.
The audio wouldn't need any editing abilities, just an import function and play/mute button. It would always play in correct time as it was recorded against the original DB file. The only weird bit would be starting the DB part at bar x and having the sound file know where to start.
Does any one else think this would be useful???
Cheers and a Happy New Year to all the DoggieBoxers out there.
Charlie
PS I suggested it as Version 2 as it would seem to be the sort of thing that a paid for update requires - if you want to add it to the current upgrades, go for it : - )
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On 30/12/2005 23:15, Charlie wrote:
The audio wouldn't need any editing abilities, just an import function and play/mute button. It would always play in correct time as it was recorded against the original DB file. The only weird bit would be starting the DB part at bar x and having the sound file know where to start.
I was originally skeptical of this idea, but after some more messing around in DB and Cubase and GB, I started to become more convinced of its utility :)
It wouldn't need any UI other than an indication that a particular "accompanying audio file" had been chosen. But, yes, how to specify the relative start times would be an issue; the accompaniment might kick-off either before or after the drums. One quick'n'dirty implementation might simply be to force synchronized audio play and DB start, leaving it up to the user to ensure there were sufficient blank bars in DB (if the drums come in later) or the correct amount of silence at the start of the accompanying audio (if the drums come in first).
I would, though, be a bit concerned about memory issues -- I've often noticed DB getting upset and doing things like "skipping" and dropping hits when using dbkits with lots of large samples. Assuming DB2 has gained the ability to make DB kits where a range of samples at different velocities can be specified for a particular drum variant, with DB automatically picking the approriate sample for a given hit based on a relative velocity set by the user via a slider in the UI (or something), then that's only going to make it easier for users to implement dbkits with hefty sample banks behind them, and so increase the amount of memory needed. Though of course one wouldn't need to have a high quality AIFF for your "accompanying audio file"! For the purposes of audition whilst tweaking the drum part, a low-bit rate AAC would do the job.
And now for something almost completely different, I had another thought for a DB feature. What about drag'n'drop of hits in the UI? (This isn't already implemented, right? I mean, I tried doing it and it didn't seem to work, but it's always possible I've fallen out of step with the latest beta!) Like you had put a snare hit on beat 3 but then decide you need it on beat 2. Instead of erasing the existing hit and inputing a new hit, one could just "grab" the existing hit and shove it over to its new position. This kind of feature might also become more useful when relative velocity settings are there, since in such cases one might have to not just input a new hit, but reset the desired velocity too. That could get to be a pain; easier to just move beats or groups of beats around, if possible!
Another note: I'm still finding myself confused by copying and pasting, especially with the Sections list. I often want to take a basic section I've made and duplicate it as a template for a new section with minor variations. Sometimes I seem to be able to select a section from the Sections list and copy/paste it to create a duplicate section, sometimes not. Perhaps a cheap and cheerful UI solution would be to allow right-clicking a section name to pop up a contextual menu that offered the option to make a copy of the section? Or something like that. (I also sometimes find myself getting tangled up by whether the cursor focus is in the Section list or in the Pattern Editor.
Mmmm, must keep slogging away at rough draft ns_kit7 dbkit .... :)
Cheers, Carl
On 05/01/2006, at 8:03 PM, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote:
On 30/12/2005 23:15, Charlie wrote:
The audio wouldn't need any editing abilities, just an import function and play/mute button. It would always play in correct time as it was recorded against the original DB file. The only weird bit would be starting the DB part at bar x and having the sound file know where to start.
I was originally skeptical of this idea, but after some more messing around in DB and Cubase and GB, I started to become more convinced of its utility :)
It wouldn't need any UI other than an indication that a particular "accompanying audio file" had been chosen.
And a volume level.... (it's something I just thought of)
But, yes, how to specify the relative start times would be an issue; the accompaniment might kick-off either before or after the drums. One quick'n'dirty implementation might simply be to force synchronized audio play and DB start, leaving it up to the user to ensure there were sufficient blank bars in DB (if the drums come in later) or the correct amount of silence at the start of the accompanying audio (if the drums come in first).
That's what I envisioned, as it's how I operate - I create a BD song and add an Intro, usually about 10 bars of hi-hat hits and a cymbal crash on the last one to let me know the real stuff starts next bar. This gives you a nice thing to tap the foot along with as you set the mic up etc. When I redo the DB part, the intro becomes 10 bars of silence and the new drum import matches up perfectly with what's already recorded.
The main issue as I see it is when you have the audio in DB, and for arguments sake, you want to listen to bars 78 to 82 to see what is needed. The audio would need to sync here. One for Ben's magic I guess : - )
Cheers
Charlie
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Ben Kennedy -
Carl Edlund Anderson -
Charlie -
Mathieu Lucas