Hey all,
In dbkits you've put together, which Group do you place ride cymbals in? So far, I've put rides in Group 4, along with high hats for little better reason than I think of using rides in a manner similar to hats. But more recently, in terms of mixing, I have been wondering whether it would be better to put rides in Group 5, where I have placed other cymbals? Would that possibly be more realistic in terms of typical drum mic'ing techniques? (About which I know virtually nothing, being almost entirely a "Doggiebox drummer"! ;))
The question came up because I have been mixing a new recording with DB drums in GarageBand, and I found that for one section where I switched from hats to rides, my rides were pretty low in the mix unless I ramped up the Master Volume controls for the individual ride sample Variants fairly aggressively in the dbkit editor. I haven't tried moving the rides over from Group 4 to Group 5 (wish there was a way to drag and drop Instruments, with all their Variants, between Groups! Or adjust the Master Volume settings for a whole set of Instrument Variants at once!) because I don't want to go through all that work as an experiment :) but I am wondering how this is approached by you others out there .....
Cheers, Carl
-- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/
The issues carl just stated are my 2 biggies that i have also wished for- being able to drag instruments around in the editor and having a more global control over the volumes of groups and sub groups.
Other than that, I love DB.
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 2, 2012, at 8:46 AM, Carl Edlund Anderson cea@carlaz.com wrote:
Hey all,
In dbkits you've put together, which Group do you place ride cymbals in? So far, I've put rides in Group 4, along with high hats for little better reason than I think of using rides in a manner similar to hats. But more recently, in terms of mixing, I have been wondering whether it would be better to put rides in Group 5, where I have placed other cymbals? Would that possibly be more realistic in terms of typical drum mic'ing techniques? (About which I know virtually nothing, being almost entirely a "Doggiebox drummer"! ;))
The question came up because I have been mixing a new recording with DB drums in GarageBand, and I found that for one section where I switched from hats to rides, my rides were pretty low in the mix unless I ramped up the Master Volume controls for the individual ride sample Variants fairly aggressively in the dbkit editor. I haven't tried moving the rides over from Group 4 to Group 5 (wish there was a way to drag and drop Instruments, with all their Variants, between Groups! Or adjust the Master Volume settings for a whole set of Instrument Variants at once!) because I don't want to go through all that work as an experiment :) but I am wondering how this is approached by you others out there .....
Cheers, Carl
-- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/
Zygoat Doggiebox discussion list - <http://www.doggiebox.com> To unsubscribe, view archives or change your options: <http://lists.zygoat.ca/mailman/listinfo/doggiebox>
On 02 Aug 2012, at 08:51, Jack Duffy wrote:
The issues carl just stated are my 2 biggies that i have also wished for- being able to drag instruments around in the editor and having a more global control over the volumes of groups and sub groups.
Yes, in the dbsong editor, I would love to be able to select particular hits in a more refined way in order to copy and paste them around more freely.
Likewise, in the dbkit editor, the prospect of having to pretty much manually recreate an Instrument in order to place it in a different Group (in the case of my rides, I have something like 16 velocity levels each of regular hits, mallet hits, and bell hits within the Instrument!) is pretty daunting! Drag'n'drop would be a nice feature here. :)
Cheers, Carl
-- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/
Carl Edlund Anderson wrote at 12:39 PM (-0500) on 8/2/12:
Likewise, in the dbkit editor, the prospect of having to pretty much manually recreate an Instrument in order to place it in a different Group (in the case of my rides, I have something like 16 velocity levels each of regular hits, mallet hits, and bell hits within the Instrument!) is pretty daunting! Drag'n'drop would be a nice feature here. :)
You can accomplish what you're after by doing a Copy (Edit menu) with the Instrument selected, then Paste after selecting a different Group (then optionally Cut or Clear the first one). I agree that drag and drop would be a better method for this; not sure why I didn't implement that yet!
b
-- Ben Kennedy, chief magician Zygoat Creative Technical Services http://www.zygoat.ca
On 02 Aug 2012, at 17:30 , Ben Kennedy ben@zygoat.ca wrote:
Carl Edlund Anderson wrote at 12:39 PM (-0500) on 8/2/12:
Likewise, in the dbkit editor, the prospect of having to pretty much manually recreate an Instrument in order to place it in a different Group (in the case of my rides, I have something like 16 velocity levels each of regular hits, mallet hits, and bell hits within the Instrument!) is pretty daunting! Drag'n'drop would be a nice feature here. :)
You can accomplish what you're after by doing a Copy (Edit menu) with the Instrument selected, then Paste after selecting a different Group (then optionally Cut or Clear the first one). I agree that drag and drop would be a better method for this; not sure why I didn't implement that yet!
Oh, err, yes, but manual copy and paste does at least in the meantime work as you describe. :) I guess I've been a GUI-thinking Mac user too long to have thought of that! :D
Cheers, Carl
-- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/
On 02 Aug 2012, at 12:39 , Carl Edlund Anderson cea@carlaz.com wrote:
On 02 Aug 2012, at 08:51, Jack Duffy wrote:
The issues carl just stated are my 2 biggies that i have also wished for- being able to drag instruments around in the editor and having a more global control over the volumes of groups and sub groups.
Yes, in the dbsong editor, I would love to be able to select particular hits in a more refined way in order to copy and paste them around more freely. Likewise, in the dbkit editor, the prospect of having to pretty much manually recreate an Instrument in order to place it in a different Group (in the case of my rides, I have something like 16 velocity levels each of regular hits, mallet hits, and bell hits within the Instrument!) is pretty daunting! Drag'n'drop would be a nice feature here. :)
As long as we're chatting on the list again, I thought I would bring one of the above issues up again: I'm just doing some dbkit editing, and find myself (again!) wanting to globally grab all the Variants of a particular Instrument and tweak all the Master Volume settings together (as opposed to each individually). I realize it might well be possible to have different Master Volume settings on different Variants within an instrument, but perhaps the behavior could be either to let the slider reset the MV for all selected Variants, or (perhaps more complicated) increase/decrease the MV by the same number of percentage points for all selected Variants?
Similar behavior for the Panning slider would also be very welcome! :)
Cheers, Carl
-- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/
On 29 Jul 2013, at 16:19 , Carl Edlund Anderson cea@carlaz.com wrote:
.I ...find myself (again!) wanting to globally grab all the Variants of a particular Instrument and tweak all the Master Volume settings together (as opposed to each individually). [...] Similar behavior for the Panning slider would also be very welcome! :)
Actually, the option to simply type in a number for the percentage value, instead of using the slider, might also handy!
Cheers, Carl
-- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/
GET TO WORK BEN!
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 29, 2013, at 5:25 PM, Carl Edlund Anderson cea@carlaz.com wrote:
On 29 Jul 2013, at 16:19 , Carl Edlund Anderson cea@carlaz.com wrote:
.I ...find myself (again!) wanting to globally grab all the Variants of a particular Instrument and tweak all the Master Volume settings together (as opposed to each individually). [...] Similar behavior for the Panning slider would also be very welcome! :)
Actually, the option to simply type in a number for the percentage value, instead of using the slider, might also handy!
Cheers, Carl
-- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/
Zygoat Doggiebox discussion list - <http://www.doggiebox.com> To unsubscribe, view archives or change your options: <http://lists.zygoat.ca/mailman/listinfo/doggiebox>
Hey Carl,
You bring up an interesting idea, placing hats and rides in the same group. Good logic, I think, since both are really timekeeping cymbals more than accent or coloring cymbals.
But I choose to keep rides together with all other cymbals in group 4. I am careful to delete hi-hat strikes that would co-incide with ride strikes, and I use the same thinking for fills that involve toms. If there's a fill that uses toms, I'll drop out the hats (except for maybe a pedal) and any cymbal strike that would be nonsensical alongside whatever is going on with the toms.
If you're using the export multiple files feature, you could, do a sub-mix of whatever's on the group 5 and group 4 channels. Of course, you can't mix 'within' each of those channels, but you can balance whatever's there.
I find it a little bothersome that, if I strike two toms at the same time, one of them bounces to group 3 by default, forcing me to have to think about how to handle that in the mix when a tom all of a sudden ends up on a hi-hat channel (using export multiple files).
There is no easy answer, but there's no wrong answer either!
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 8:46 AM, Carl Edlund Anderson cea@carlaz.com wrote:
Hey all,
In dbkits you've put together, which Group do you place ride cymbals in? So far, I've put rides in Group 4, along with high hats for little better reason than I think of using rides in a manner similar to hats. But more recently, in terms of mixing, I have been wondering whether it would be better to put rides in Group 5, where I have placed other cymbals? Would that possibly be more realistic in terms of typical drum mic'ing techniques? (About which I know virtually nothing, being almost entirely a "Doggiebox drummer"! ;))
The question came up because I have been mixing a new recording with DB drums in GarageBand, and I found that for one section where I switched from hats to rides, my rides were pretty low in the mix unless I ramped up the Master Volume controls for the individual ride sample Variants fairly aggressively in the dbkit editor. I haven't tried moving the rides over from Group 4 to Group 5 (wish there was a way to drag and drop Instruments, with all their Variants, between Groups! Or adjust the Master Volume settings for a whole set of Instrument Variants at once!) because I don't want to go through all that work as an experiment :) but I am wondering how this is approached by you others out there .....
Cheers, Carl
-- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/
Zygoat Doggiebox discussion list - <http://www.doggiebox.com> To unsubscribe, view archives or change your options: <http://lists.zygoat.ca/mailman/listinfo/doggiebox>
On 02 Aug 2012, at 08:54, Mike Carlyle wrote:
You bring up an interesting idea, placing hats and rides in the same group. Good logic, I think, since both are really timekeeping cymbals more than accent or coloring cymbals. But I choose to keep rides together with all other cymbals in group 4. I am careful to delete hi-hat strikes that would co-incide with ride strikes, and I use the same thinking for fills that involve toms. If there's a fill that uses toms, I'll drop out the hats (except for maybe a pedal) and any cymbal strike that would be nonsensical alongside whatever is going on with the toms. If you're using the export multiple files feature, you could, do a sub-mix of whatever's on the group 5 and group 4 channels. Of course, you can't mix 'within' each of those channels, but you can balance whatever's there.
Yes, I do the same: trying to "think like a drummer", despite quite limited experience acting as one, by not "virtually hitting" more stuff than I have limbs! :)
But although I have so far placed my rides with the hats (thinking of them, indeed, as time-keeping things), I am now thinking that they might be better off with the other cymbals -- as "stuff that would be picked up principally by overhead mics" with a real kit. Accordingly, the rides might come out better in the mix if treated as a treat the other cymbals. (Based on my current practices, which are to dump the Groups to separate AIFFs, and then drop each AIFF into a separate track in GarageBand, each of which is processed distinctly.)
This is also making me think I should check where I've placed things like the tambourine and the cowbell (neither of which I have used _so_ frequently, but I do use them here and there), and whether they would be better off living with the hats or the cymbals ....
I find it a little bothersome that, if I strike two toms at the same time, one of them bounces to group 3 by default, forcing me to have to think about how to handle that in the mix when a tom all of a sudden ends up on a hi-hat channel (using export multiple files).
Does the other simultaneous tom hit _really_ bounce to Group 3 (as reflected in the output AIFFs), or is that only a visual artifact of the way that Doggiebox needs to display two simultaneous hits for the same Group when the UI only allows space for one? My sense is the latter -- though I am not sure that I have definitely tested this!
There is no easy answer, but there's no wrong answer either!
Well, another thing might be putting the toms in the same Group as the snares (I find that I tend to process my currently distinct toms and snare tracks quite similarly), leaving hats in their own Group, leaving cymbals _except_ the ride in their own Group, and then put the ride cymbal in a Group of its own (distinct from hats and other cymbals).
Dunno if it might be overkill to give the rides their own Group, and thus output AIFF/track .... :)
Cheers, Carl
-- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/
Carl Edlund Anderson wrote at 12:39 PM (-0500) on 8/2/12:
On 02 Aug 2012, at 08:54, Mike Carlyle wrote:
I find it a little bothersome that, if I strike two toms at the same time, one of them bounces to group 3 by default, forcing me to have to think about how to handle that in the mix when a tom all of a sudden ends up on a hi-hat channel (using export multiple files).
Does the other simultaneous tom hit _really_ bounce to Group 3 (as reflected in the output AIFFs), or is that only a visual artifact of the way that Doggiebox needs to display two simultaneous hits for the same Group when the UI only allows space for one? My sense is the latter --
Carl is correct -- it's just shown that way in the UI, but on export, it the sound should be properly mixed with its designated group.
BTW, a version 2.0.2 update is now available. No new features, but a variety of small bug fixes. Also, dropped support for 10.5 and PowerPC -- sad that day has finally come. I would have preferred to maintain that support awhile longer, but with each update of the developer tools, Apple makes it increasingly difficult to support their older platforms. Ah well.
-b
-- Ben Kennedy, chief magician Zygoat Creative Technical Services http://www.zygoat.ca
Nice! I never actually got past what I was seeing on screen, so I didn't try the export and mix. Good to know. I had been avoiding simultaneous toms.
Thanks.
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Ben Kennedy ben@zygoat.ca wrote:
Carl Edlund Anderson wrote at 12:39 PM (-0500) on 8/2/12:
On 02 Aug 2012, at 08:54, Mike Carlyle wrote:
I find it a little bothersome that, if I strike two toms at the same time, one of them bounces to group 3 by default, forcing me to have to think about how to handle that in the mix when a tom all of a sudden ends up on a hi-hat channel (using export multiple files).
Does the other simultaneous tom hit _really_ bounce to Group 3 (as reflected in the output AIFFs), or is that only a visual artifact of the way that Doggiebox needs to display two simultaneous hits for the same Group when the UI only allows space for one? My sense is the latter --
Carl is correct -- it's just shown that way in the UI, but on export, it the sound should be properly mixed with its designated group.
BTW, a version 2.0.2 update is now available. No new features, but a variety of small bug fixes. Also, dropped support for 10.5 and PowerPC -- sad that day has finally come. I would have preferred to maintain that support awhile longer, but with each update of the developer tools, Apple makes it increasingly difficult to support their older platforms. Ah well.
-b
-- Ben Kennedy, chief magician Zygoat Creative Technical Services http://www.zygoat.ca
Zygoat Doggiebox discussion list - <http://www.doggiebox.com> To unsubscribe, view archives or change your options: <http://lists.zygoat.ca/mailman/listinfo/doggiebox>
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Ben Kennedy -
Carl Edlund Anderson -
Jack Duffy -
Mike Carlyle