One of the first recordings I made with Doggiebox was a song called "Afterburner" back in 2004 or so. I knocked up a very simple drum part using Mike Carlyle's .dbkit for ns_kit6 in just a few minutes, and recorded it on my Roland VS-1680, running stereo audio to the unit out of my iBook's headphone jack. (I think I may have used the then-new MIDI MMC features in Doggiebox to control the VS-1680 ... or maybe that was another song ... I don't remember!)
It was a pretty useful demo (for all that I never removed the metronomic woodblock clicks from a couple of places), as the band I played with for a couple of years in England used it to learn the song for live performance. I always wanted to record a new version (I eventually changed the main riff slightly), using Garageband, but never got a guitar or bass sound there that I liked as well as the one I had on the original VS-1680 recording. Then, when I left the UK for South America, I had to sell the VS-1680, but I slurped my recordings from it off to Garageband first.
This past week, I decided to revisit my old "Afterburner" recording. I remixed it in Garageband, tarting it up in various ways -- notably making new, fancier (and multitrack) drums in the Doggiebox. So from the point of view of Doggiebox, it's all new. (Even if it still has the same guitars, basses, and even the dodgy vocal of the the original demo! ;)
Here's the link: http://www.carlaz.com/music/Afterburner.mp3
It's a pretty straight-up and shamelessly derivative space-rock/ stoner-rock in a kind of Hawkwind-meets-Kyuss-and-Monster-Magnet kind of thing. (And, so, great fun to play live! :) The new version's drums change ns_kit6 for the ns_kit7 samples I've been using of late. Maybe someday I'll find the guitar/bass sounds to record an all new version -- though I'll probably stick with the current drums :) -- but I'm reasonably happy with the newly reinvented version for the moment.
Cheers, Carl
-- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/
Wow. A Hawkwind reference! There's something you don't come across every day.
I sort of remember listening to this once before. I can't recall what I thought then, but I do like it now. The drums are convincing. The guitars are a bit present in the mix and kind of in-your-face. Don't know if that's what you were going for. The bass track is sort of buried until you start playing in the upper registers two thirds of the way through or so. I have trouble recording and mixing bass, but I've just stumbled across a tried and true recipe.
I'm back to thinking I'm going to buy a real kit. A small, inexpensive three piece (plus snare) is what I have in mind. Who knows? I may just turn that into yet another DB kit as well.
On Mar 8, 2008, at 8:23 PM, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote:
It's a pretty straight-up and shamelessly derivative space-rock/ stoner-rock in a kind of Hawkwind-meets-Kyuss-and-Monster-Magnet kind of thing. (And, so, great fun to play live! :)
On 09 Mar 2008, at 08:18 , Michael Carlyle wrote:
Wow. A Hawkwind reference! There's something you don't come across every day.
I'm a not-very-closet Hawkwind fan. ;) There's a cover of their "Hassan I Sabha" on my recordings web page <http://www.carlaz.com/ music/>, but it uses drum loops rather than DB (free Drums on Demand Apple loops, I think), so less interesting for this list.
"Afterburner" borrows "musical inspiration" ;) heavily from Space Ritual/Doremi-era Hawkwind, particular the songs "Master of the Universe" (the grinding E riff and false ending) and "Time We Left This World Today" (the bass freak-out ;), while the lyrics obliquely reference lines in "Silver Machine" and "Born to Go". Actually, some of the synth bubbles in the middle bit are lifted directly and shamelessly from the original intro to "Silver Machine", though I have a friend who should be doing me some new proper synths and Dr- Who-style swooshy noises (see below).
I sort of remember listening to this once before. I can't recall what I thought then, but I do like it now. The drums are convincing. The guitars are a bit present in the mix and kind of in- your-face. Don't know if that's what you were going for. The bass track is sort of buried until you start playing in the upper registers two thirds of the way through or so.
Yeah, it's more or less the intention -- it's supposed to be that "blazing wall of molten guitar" that drives all before, with the bass burbling up from the depths occasionally and then erupting in the instrumental section. There was a certain fat-yet-punchy vibe in the bass overdrive (done with a Roland COSM amp model, a JC-120 guitar amp model actually) that I haven't gotten close to in the Apple amp sims yet.
I did think to tweak the guitars back a bit, but having put in various changes in to the volume in the GB Track volumes for the guitars, I was getting too lazy in the moment to tweak _all_ the change points done a notch.
I've got a friend who plays synths for an improv-based space-rock band in Scandinavia -- most of the low-mixed synths here are culled from some samples he sent me a few years back. But I'm getting him to do some "purpose-built" synths for the piece, so when I go back to mix in those, I might re-tweak the guitars, too. (Depending on how loud I like my guitars that day ;)
I have trouble recording and mixing bass, but I've just stumbled across a tried and true recipe.
Now _that's_ a leading statement. ;) Do tell!
On 09 Mar 2008, at 15:22 , Sion Morris wrote:
Like this a lot. tons of energy! The doubled guitars work well and I've always liked the chunky bass sound you get - both go together really well with the doggiebox track. Again, passes the 'forget that the drums are programmed' test. Interesting song sections, especially the middle with solo. This bit reminds me a little of 'London' by the Smiths. And the ending is cute!
I was vacillating between a fade out and a sudden stop, and so decided to do both. ;)
The original drum part had this thing where it whacked away at the same ride sample almost all the way through, without even regarding whether the drummer should be using some of his hands on the snare rolls, as well. ;) The new drumer is less of an octopus, and hits both ride and hat now (though much more often the previously). He also shifts from his basic pattern at least in the guitar solo, now, though he's given in to my indulgence for smacking the cymbals around a fair bit. (I briefly experimented with taking away some of the original cymbals hits, but then ended up putting in more than ever! ;)
Comparing with the original version (using Ben's kit?)
I could swear it was the kit Mike C. made that used the old ns_kit6 samples, rather than Ben's kit. But I don't actually remember! :)
it does sound like v1 is the demo, especially where the drums are concerned. The only thing I'm not keen on in the drums in v2, are the hi-hat strikes just at the start. They sound a little too much like sequenced samples to me. the rest of the drum track sounds great though.
Yeah, I'm actually not sure about keeping those either. I kept taking them out then putting them back .... I might try twiddling them so more, or I think I might just take them out again. I'm not sure they add much!
I do think the vocals should be higher in the mix - I think we 'unwilling vocalists' always tend to put our vox too low down! I'd definitely like to hear this belted out with the vocals up an octave too (neighbours permitting), sounded really good in Twa Corbies - though "take a ride' sounds good lower down must admit. There again if you want to keep the air of 'menace' going, lower down is best... or maybe both!
I was thinking of recording a new vocal pass -- the existing ones are very old and very quiet, and the way to raise them is painstakingly tweak everything else down -- but haven't sprung new vox on the neighbors yet. ;) If I seem sufficiently alone sometime in the coming weeks, I might go for it. ;)
Cheers, Carl
-- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/
Well... I kind of thought sharing would be irrelevant, since it's a very gear-specific solution.
A 30,000 foot view is: My Fender Jazz into an Alesis Nano comp. Nano comp direct into my Yamaha AW 1600. An input parameter on the Yamaha that's set up a certain way using built in speaker emulation and more dynamics. Playing with a pick (I normally use fingers on bass parts). EQing out some high mids to reduce pick click.
The result is a clear, low, punchy, full tone with just the right attack and resonance to blend nicely with a kick.
Prior to this approach, my sound was often indistinct. The AW1600 gives me some very clear reproduction at 24bit. Better than I was getting recording to my Mac. However, I was always searching for better.
Maybe it's the pick.
On Mar 10, 2008, at 10:53 AM, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote:
I have trouble recording and mixing bass, but I've just stumbled across a tried and true recipe.
Now _that's_ a leading statement. ;) Do tell!
On 10 Mar 2008, at 16:54 , Michael Carlyle wrote:
Playing with a pick (I normally use fingers on bass parts). EQing out some high mids to reduce pick click.
Well, that's one change that wouldn't help me since I always play bass with a pick anyway. Having started stringed instruments as a hack guitarist, I made the move to hack bassist without any real change of technique (insofar as I have technique ;)).
Prior to this approach, my sound was often indistinct. The AW1600 gives me some very clear reproduction at 24bit. Better than I was getting recording to my Mac. However, I was always searching for better.
I did get good sound out of my Roland DAW -- just couldn't cart it to South America! The latest GarageBand versions do 24-bit recording, though I haven't tried that yet. I plan to check out some purpose- made AU amp sims eventually, which I'm thinking might get better tone than just the built-in GB sims ... but that's a ways off in the budget.
Cheers, Carl
-- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/
Like this a lot. tons of energy! The doubled guitars work well and I've always liked the chunky bass sound you get - both go together really well with the doggiebox track. Again, passes the 'forget that the drums are programmed' test. Interesting song sections, especially the middle with solo. This bit reminds me a little of 'London' by the Smiths. And the ending is cute!
Comparing with the original version (using Ben's kit?) it does sound like v1 is the demo, especially where the drums are concerned. The only thing I'm not keen on in the drums in v2, are the hi-hat strikes just at the start. They sound a little too much like sequenced samples to me. the rest of the drum track sounds great though.
I do think the vocals should be higher in the mix - I think we 'unwilling vocalists' always tend to put our vox too low down! I'd definitely like to hear this belted out with the vocals up an octave too (neighbours permitting), sounded really good in Twa Corbies - though "take a ride' sounds good lower down must admit. There again if you want to keep the air of 'menace' going, lower down is best... or maybe both!
Anyway well done - 'tis now on the ipod
Sion
---------------------------------------- Sion Morris www.sionsmusic.cinnamondesign.co.uk
On 9 Mar 2008, at 01:23, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote:
This past week, I decided to revisit my old "Afterburner" recording. I remixed it in Garageband, tarting it up in various ways -- notably making new, fancier (and multitrack) drums in the Doggiebox. So from the point of view of Doggiebox, it's all new. (Even if it still has the same guitars, basses, and even the dodgy vocal of the the original demo! ;)
Here's the link: http://www.carlaz.com/music/Afterburner.mp3
It's a pretty straight-up and shamelessly derivative space-rock/ stoner-rock in a kind of Hawkwind-meets-Kyuss-and-Monster-Magnet kind of thing. (And, so, great fun to play live! :) The new version's drums change ns_kit6 for the ns_kit7 samples I've been using of late. Maybe someday I'll find the guitar/bass sounds to record an all new version -- though I'll probably stick with the current drums :) -- but I'm reasonably happy with the newly reinvented version for the moment.
Cheers, Carl
-- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/
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On 09 Mar 2008, at 15:22 , Sion Morris wrote:
though "take a ride' sounds good lower down must admit.
I _thought_ I had lifted that phrase directly from the track "Magic Potion" performed by cult UK psych rock act Sun Dial (that recording is a cover, I'm sure, but I've never identified the original) -- but when I listened again later, I figured out their line was "I took a ride". Alas, my plan for plagarization foiled by sloppy listening ... ;)
Cheers, Carl
-- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/
I'm a big fan of sloppy listening - it often makes for a better result I think. I often mis-hear things - especially when my children say stuff. I also apply the same thing to a tune or riff too - after playing something I've heard or try to remember, I go back to the original and find its not what I thought it was - but like the result anyway. Ignorance driving creativity! I'm sure Edward De Bono has some techniques along these lines.
Cheers
Sion
------------------------------------------ Sion Morris www.sionsmusic.cinnamondesign.co.uk
On 12 Mar 2008, at 00:11, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote:
I _thought_ I had lifted that phrase directly from the track "Magic Potion" performed by cult UK psych rock act Sun Dial (that recording is a cover, I'm sure, but I've never identified the original) -- but when I listened again later, I figured out their line was "I took a ride". Alas, my plan for plagarization foiled by sloppy listening ... ;)
-
Carl Edlund Anderson -
Michael Carlyle -
Sion Morris